CPR85 & Injunctions

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Tuco
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#1 CPR85 & Injunctions

Post by Tuco » 13 Oct 2016 15:30

Why is pleb Bailiff-can-take-my-hire-purchase-car so obsessed with debtors following the CPR85 route? Why is he only obsessed with this and not with any other procedure that debtors follow?

What is CPR 85?
In short, CPR 85 a procedure for 3rd parties to follow if their goods have been controlled. However, 3rd parties may only follow CPR85 if they place it in writing within 7 days of their goods being controlled. What happens after that? Is the owner expected to simply shrug his shoulders and say "lifes a bitch" What is the hirer of goods supposed to do? He is neither the owner nor a 3rd party.

Civil Procedure Rule 85.4 sets out what a 3rd party owner must do:

(1) Any person making a claim under paragraph 60(1) of Schedule 12 must, as soon as practicable but in any event within 7 days of the goods being removed under the exercise of an enforcement power, give notice in writing of their claim to the enforcement agent who has taken control of the goods ('the notice of claim to controlled goods') and must include in such notice—

(a) their full name and address, and confirmation that such address is their address for service;

(b) a list of all those goods in respect of which they make such a claim; and

(c) the grounds of their claim in respect of each item.


However, if a bailiff has taken a car, he will have pretty strong belief that he has goods of the debtor. Generally, a 3rd party owner will be asked to provide the standard 5 pieces of evidence of ownership. A V5 is included in the 5 but when produced, the bailiffs solicitor will simply state that this does not prove anything. When the 3rd party owner produces proof of ownership by way of other documentation showing proof of purchase, the bailiffs solicitor will simply state that this is a sham sale. In short, unless you have bought your car from a garage and can provide evidence of a passage of funds, you are royally f@%ked.

mushroom will tell you that all that is needed is a pretty little letter saying "pretty please" and your car will be retuned-Sadly it won't. kipper nickers will also tell you that she has been involved in many CPR claims. Sadly she hasn't. kipper nickers is a pathological liar and wouldn't know a CPR claim if one hit her in the face.


Is a CPR claim free?
The first stage is free, where you can write your pretty little letter to the nice friendly bailiff. After he has picked himself up off the floor, having recovered from his fit of laughter, his solicitor will write you a not so pretty little letter. The letter will state that your claim for goods is rejected. Furthermore, the nice bailiffs solicitor will tell you that if you continue the claim in court, he will invite the court to request a large payment from you, pursuant to 60(4) of Schedule 12:

(4)The required payments are—

(a)payment on making the application (subject to sub-paragraph (5)) of an amount equal to the value of the goods, or to a proportion of it directed by the court;

(b)payment, at prescribed times (on making the application or later), of any amounts prescribed in respect of the enforcement agent's costs of retaining the goods.


Furthermore, the application to the court costs £255. Ironically, an injunction hearing costs exactly the same.


Should a CPR 85 claim be attempted without legal representation?

The answer has to be no. The pretty little letter costs nothing but by the same token, rarely gets the author anywhere. Even at this late stage, the bailiff and his solicitor will use the high pressure situation in order to force you to pay, regardless of whether it is your debt or not. After the initial request has been refused, court action is necessary, which really involves professional help in both preparing for and acting for at the hearing. There is a potential for costs to be awarded against the losing side. I suspect that the bailiff companies feel more confident of avoiding costs orders in CPR 85 claims than they do in injunctions, which may go some way to explaining why they are so obsessed with avoiding injunction hearings.

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Pote Snitkin
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#2 Re: CPR85 & Injunctions

Post by Pote Snitkin » 13 Oct 2016 15:37

You should add that p85 is also for claims to exempt goods.
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#3 Re: CPR85 & Injunctions

Post by Schedule 12 » 13 Oct 2016 15:40

pleb likes CPR85.5(6) which requires the claimant to lodge money with the court. pleb likes to persuade the court the sum should be the value of the goods seized.

I make an objection by giving notice under CPR 85.5, the claimant will apply to the court the sum lodge is a proportion of their goods because their value is excessive to the value of the debt being recovered, in Newlyns case: a £202 PCN.

It gets an angry reaction, but I argue the enforcement company tries to cancel the notice to cause the claim to fail because the claimant does not have £8000 to lodge when the warrant debt is only £202 and expose the claimant to the enforcement company's solicitors fees.

CPR 85 is not an injunction. That is, under Paragraph 66 of Schedule 12 when the bailiff breaches any provision of that schedule. The snag is only a debtor can make such a claim. An interpleader claimant cannot injunct.
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Tuco
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#4 Re: CPR85 & Injunctions

Post by Tuco » 13 Oct 2016 15:47

Yes-I'm aware of his threats. They are more designed at placing pressure on the applicant not to proceed, than they are of having any realistic chance of being accepted by a court. & kipper nickers wants to expose innocent debtors to this reprehensible intimidation?

I mean, who should be expected to pay £8,000 down for a £512 debt? In fact, next time Bailiff-can-take-my-hire-purchase-car does that, he may well be invited to swap the disproportionately valued car for a television and a microwave, pursuant to paragraph 12-See how he likes that. :lol:

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#5 Re: CPR85 & Injunctions

Post by Tuco » 13 Oct 2016 22:24

Bailiff Advise is the best one for this, as she has stated in an earlier post she has only lost one
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bailiff Advice is quite possibly the worst person of all for this. She is a liar, an idiot and a crank who is quite clearly away with the fairies. On top of this, despite her claims, it is obvious that she has never been involved in a CPR 85 in her sorry life.

She has previously stated: "A well drafted letter will do the trick"

Sadly, a well drafted letter will not do the trick. CPR 85.4 is quite clear that facts are required, not pretty little stories from CAB cast offs

How to instigate a CPR 85 claim

Ignore references to "interpleader"

Head the claim: Notice of Claim to Controlled Goods

List your name and address, list the goods you are claiming as yours, state your reasons. Attach anything you may have to prove ownership and also your address.

Send it all to the bailiff company.

If (as is nearly always the case), the bailiff rejects your claim, you have to apply to the court. This should not ideally be tackled by yourself.

DO NOT address it to the TEC. Address it to the local court of the debtor. Ask for a transfer to a more local court if needs be. Fill out an N244

If pleb Bailiff-can-take-my-hire-purchase-car or any other scumbag threatens to ask for the value of your car as a deposit, ask the court to accept the value of the debt outstanding (bear in mind the scumbags are only supposed to take goods proportionate to the debt in the first place). If you are unemployed or on benefits, ask the court to accept a token payment of £50.

You need to include witness statements and exhibits

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#6 Re: CPR85 & Injunctions

Post by Schedule 12 » 13 Oct 2016 22:36

Nobody on the CAG board has drafted an interpleader claim. I doubt anyone there would even know where to start.

I've noticed Newlyn and others have been a little more cautious about taking non-debtors cars lately. They are learning its not healthy for their bank balance.
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Tuco
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#7 Re: CPR85 & Injunctions

Post by Tuco » 13 Oct 2016 23:31

jasonDWB wrote:Nobody on the CAG board has drafted an interpleader claim. I doubt anyone there would even know where to start.

I've noticed Newlyn and others have been a little more cautious about taking non-debtors cars lately. They are learning its not healthy for their bank balance.
Exactly

We'll probably have to wait a week or so until Bailiff-can-take-my-hire-purchase-car or some other muppet responds to kipper nickers's frantic pleas for help and then when she posts, the chimp will come crawling out from beneath his stone, bluffing that he knew about it all along.

It is all so predictable. The scary thing is, that these idiotic pair of old fools still think that there are still people out there who take them seriously. They are that stupid, they don't realise that the game is up and that they are little short of a laughing stock.

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#8 Re: CPR85 & Injunctions

Post by Schedule 12 » 14 Oct 2016 09:19

the crank wrote:I really do not care whether I will be criticised for saying so, but the truth is that I have probably more experience that anybody else about 'Part 85' claims.

I was the person who put so much pressure on the government to introduce 'Part 85' claims into the CPR regulations almost three years ago.
She is completely bonkers.

I fell off my chair when I read that !!!
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