Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

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#1 Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Schedule 12 » 15 Oct 2016 14:32

I took a new client on today, and it's going to a Personal Injury lawyer, and presented to a Justice of the Peace.

What surprised me was the police have already dismissed the complaint a civil matter when the bailiff used a weapon to jab the debtor in the thigh as well as breaking open a garage door to enter the property. Both bailiffs were dressed in military camouflage attire.

I come across cases involving violence and sex offences by bailiffs being classed a civil matter by the police, but this is the first time a case involving a bailiff carrying and using a weapon on a debtor, dismissed as a civil matter.

Any thoughts on this?
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#2 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Pote Snitkin » 15 Oct 2016 14:54

It's troubling that a bailiff going out tooled up. The debtor reported an assault, the police ignored him. Big trouble.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#3 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 17 Dec 2016 14:31

Perhaps report individual officer(s) to Police professional standards and IPCC along with MP as this might hi light those officers refusing to investigate a reported crime as they are bound to do. Assault is assault and technically speaking the fear of violence constitutes such, you don't actually have to be physically touched. Police officers have previously told me that if they feel their job is at stake they will act properly. Surely the police do not decide what is a crime if it is provided for under law? Assault is a criminal complaint although you will have better redress under the bailiff indemnity insurance for personal injury.

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#4 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Schedule 12 » 17 Dec 2016 15:39

I wasn't able to solve the complaint so I assigned it to a fee earner to solve using legal proceedings.
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#5 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Pote Snitkin » 17 Dec 2016 16:23

Dizzychick, perhaps you have some knowledge or qualifications that may be of some use on here.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#6 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Tuco » 17 Dec 2016 18:48

Pote Snitkin wrote:Dizzychick, perhaps you have some knowledge or qualifications that may be of some use on here.
Yes "Dizzychick" has ample experience of court procedures.

What do you call a scouser in a suit?

The accused.

Boom Boom!

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#7 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Michelle » 17 Dec 2016 18:53

jasonDWB wrote:I wasn't able to solve the complaint so I assigned it to a fee earner to solve using legal proceedings.
Pote Snitkin wrote:It's troubling that a bailiff going out tooled up. The debtor reported an assault, the police ignored him. Big trouble.
There are two separate issues here. One is the personal injury angle, if that's being dealt with by a solicitor then they'd know what to advice. However, the police should not be allowed to get away with taking the side of the bailiff. The enforcement may well be a civil matter but the assault isn't. :xmas_confused:
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#8 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Schedule 12 » 17 Dec 2016 19:09

When I have assigned, the solicitor cannot discuss the case with me unless the client does or my advice is sought. Due to volumes I only learn of the result when the case exits Court. The claim was twofold the personal injury and intransigence by the police force resulting in failure to investigate a crime reported to them.
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#9 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Michelle » 17 Dec 2016 19:57

That goes without saying, it's a matter of client confidentiality. I was referring to a separate complaint against the police.
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#10 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 13:34

Tuco? I do have experience of some Court processes, not really under these subject matters tho. Do you know me?
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#11 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 13:37

You are able to make a separate complaint against the police through the usual channels of professional conduct, commissioners and the like. Whether anything comes of it is another matter. Media coverage usually helps accentuate the process and provides for a positive outcome.

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#12 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Schedule 12 » 18 Dec 2016 13:48

The media won't report on issues progressing through court.

I don't waste time with IPCC or Professional Standards. Just set out your claim. Say what you want the police force to do to put things right. Draft a statement and skeleton argument to assist the court. Set the evidence pack. Assign a fee earner or counsel. Job done.
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#13 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 14:07

Some can and will. I wasn't referring to the civil complaint, rather the police complaint that didn't seem to have been addressed? Obviously as this has been passed to a solicitor there is no more discussion on that however surely it is in the public interest to be not only aware of the bailiffs actions, also the lack thereof of the police? I'm sure this could be achieved after any proceedings have taken place. If there is media interest before the case goes to Court, it usually forces the Court to make the right judgement. British Justice in practice isn't always that or fair. You can of course take the claim/Court route immediately and directly, it's the claimants decision.

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#14 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Schedule 12 » 18 Dec 2016 14:24

I can't change unofficial police policy dictating bailiff crime is a civil matter. The alternative is monetising it at police expense until political change.
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#15 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Pote Snitkin » 18 Dec 2016 16:41

Dizzychick wrote:Some can and will. I wasn't referring to the civil complaint, rather the police complaint that didn't seem to have been addressed? Obviously as this has been passed to a solicitor there is no more discussion on that however surely it is in the public interest to be not only aware of the bailiffs actions, also the lack thereof of the police? I'm sure this could be achieved after any proceedings have taken place. If there is media interest before the case goes to Court, it usually forces the Court to make the right judgement. British Justice in practice isn't always that or fair. You can of course take the claim/Court route immediately and directly, it's the claimants decision.
Of course, with you being in Holland, it can make it more difficult to keep abreast of UK legislative changes.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#16 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Tuco » 18 Dec 2016 18:34

Dizzychick wrote:Tuco? I do have experience of some Court processes, not really under these subject matters tho. Do you know me?
I help where I'm able, health allowing.
Sorry Dizzychick

I needed to post because there are a bunch of moronic degenerates who thought you had posted purely to "bash Sheila"

If pushed, I would take a guess that you are Drocca.

Either way, your story is extremely hard to believe. Much as I dislike Sheila and take everything she says with a pinch of salt, even I don't think Sheila is thick enough to claim that she can "make problems go away" (and boy do I think she's thick)

Unlike the degenerates, I am also aware of the emails that you have sent prior to posting. I'm not sure what your game is but trying to get us involved by inventing silly things about Sheila Harding will not work. Harding is a big enough scumbag already and it does not need stories to highlight this. You making up stories about her only serves to devalue the truthful things previously posted.

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#17 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Michelle » 18 Dec 2016 18:54

Pote Snitkin wrote:
Dizzychick wrote:Some can and will. I wasn't referring to the civil complaint, rather the police complaint that didn't seem to have been addressed? Obviously as this has been passed to a solicitor there is no more discussion on that however surely it is in the public interest to be not only aware of the bailiffs actions, also the lack thereof of the police? I'm sure this could be achieved after any proceedings have taken place. If there is media interest before the case goes to Court, it usually forces the Court to make the right judgement. British Justice in practice isn't always that or fair. You can of course take the claim/Court route immediately and directly, it's the claimants decision.
Of course, with you being in Holland, it can make it more difficult to keep abreast of UK legislative changes.
That was a very recent move, she was using a UK proxy when she made the original post... :xmas_rolleyes:
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#18 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 19:54

Yes, SHE was using a UK proxy. Actually I use a VPN since the law was changed recently and all your ISP logged online website visits are up for grabs on demand to most if not all government departments. I have made nothing up about Shelia (I didn't know she was behind baliffadviceonline). I did approach her regarding a PCN and she wanted to charge me £65 as she has a contact in the Council. It may take sometime to locate however I think I have the call recorded. It was at a time my health was extremely poor so I felt she took advantage of that. I tried PePiPoo before coming here however they recommended baliffadviceonline as an 'expert' so I did not pursue. I wasn't aware of the difficulties this site has had with the other until reading a little more on here so my posting was about what I had encountered, not as a means to bash anyone.

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#19 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 20:00

Tuco, I am not Drocca? and I'm unsure as to which emails you are referring to? I assume it's with regards to the VPN

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#20 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Schedule 12 » 18 Dec 2016 20:15

A VPN doesn't render IP numbers from different countries.
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#21 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Tuco » 18 Dec 2016 20:17

Dizzychick wrote:Tuco, I am not Drocca? and I'm unsure as to which emails you are referring to? I assume it's with regards to the VPN
OK fine.

You originally stated that Sheila was calling herself "Shirley" Do you have any evidence of this? If so, please post it up.

Also, please post any paperwork that you have regarding this matter, blanking out any personal info.

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#22 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 20:21

A VPN does render IPs from different countries if it has an automatic switching service or manual server selection process which I make use of. I will try to dig up the info for whatever her name is from baliffadviceonline when I can locate it. In my files/old email somewhere.

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#23 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Pote Snitkin » 18 Dec 2016 20:36

Dizzychick wrote:I tried PePiPoo before coming here however they recommended baliffadviceonline as an 'expert' so I did not pursue.
No you didn't. You joined here at 12:30am on the 16th and Pepipoo a day later. No-one on there even mentioned bailifadviceonline until 13:45 yesterday.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#24 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Schedule 12 » 18 Dec 2016 20:42

Pepipoo stopped recommending Sheila because there has been complaints. I understand she still crawls the boards for bailiff related questions.
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#25 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 20:45

JOINED Pepipoo, Had researched their forum previously and not joined, they did recommend baliffadviceonline to me and had done to other posters in the past. I do not usually join forums and once joining BHF read come of the other posts where pepipoo is recommended and the problems regarding baliffadviceonline which is kinked on this site. I wasn't aware of this before reading it on here. Am I being interrogated for something? I was looking for a solution to my situation, that's all.

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#26 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 20:46

pepipoo recommended baliffadviceonline to me yesterday and gave a rather inappropriate response when I declined.

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#27 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Pote Snitkin » 18 Dec 2016 20:50

Dizzychick wrote:JOINED Pepipoo, Had researched their forum previously and not joined, they did recommend baliffadviceonline to me and had done to other posters in the past.
No, they first mentioned her at 13:45 yesterday the 17th. You posted here on the 16th at 23:13 that they had recommended her. So unless you are a time-traveller, you are telling porkies. This, along with the hiding behind a proxy, has made us suspicious of your intentions.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#28 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 21:02

Copy of post on Pepipoo, name of board member removed.

Yesterday

Member

You don't appear to have any grounds for filing a PE3.

If you are claiming 'vulnerable' person status you need to seek the advice of 'bailiffadviceonline'.

You will only get a response if you include FULL detail. i.e. ALL dates, correspondence, etc.

-

The OfR is appallingly flawed btw but there is no avenue to challenge it that I can think of.




Btw - on researching pepipoo forum previously, baliffadviceonline has been a continuous recommendation. I have no intentions and I'm uncomfortable at being interrogated unnecessarily for no good reason. Many people use a proxy for privacy and it's a sensible option online. There is no reason to harangue me over what boards I join and when after I have approached for help on the process and law for my situation, also that you have checked this?! I have the freedom to look where I please in seeking a solution to my problem given that's what I'm doing looking for help with a situation.

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#29 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Pote Snitkin » 18 Dec 2016 21:04

Stop using the proxy and you'll be taken seriously.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#30 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 21:08

Not a chance. Privacy is a necessity on the internet.

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#31 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Pote Snitkin » 18 Dec 2016 21:10

Dizzychick wrote:Not a chance. Privacy is a necessity on the internet.
Then I'm afriad you'll be roundly ignored.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#32 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 21:18

Doesn't matter. I came looking for information and assistance on an issue. You cannot demand how members connect to the internet.

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#33 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 21:20

Last post when declining baliffadviceonline from Pepipoo

Oh really? Exactly what experience was that then? Contacted them? Received a response?

As for compliance, well what do you expect; they give legal advice.
That somewhat ignores the very clear reason I gave for referring you: That, and PMB put it slightly better, if a 'vulnerable' person
then you are afforded some protection under the applicable legislation on enforcement.

The service recommended will know the specifics; we don't, as Mick has also emphasised.

Suit yourself if you don't want to explore that possibility.
We're trying to help.

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#34 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Pote Snitkin » 18 Dec 2016 21:27

Dizzychick wrote:Last post when declining baliffadviceonline from Pepipoo....
Yes I know, I've been reading it. You posted on here that they had recommended bailiffadviceonline about 14 hours before they actually did. This silly little fib has snowballed.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#35 Re: Bailiff used a kubotan on a debtor. Police say it's a "civil matter"

Post by Dizzychick » 18 Dec 2016 21:32

They had recommended it in general consistently previously whilst i was researching PCN's and recovery BEFORE I joined the forum. That was an example of what I had actually been recommended as BHF has stated they no longer do. I researched to them because, correct me if I'm wrong, BHF advise on baliff related matters not PCN or traffic procedure and compliance and subsequent flaws or issues.

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