EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post Reply
John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#1 EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 10 Oct 2017 13:26

Over the past few years, there has been some absolutely appalling information given out on the internet over EAC2 complaints about bailiffs. Most of the inaccuracies have come from the queen of all drama queens, Sheila Harding. Not far behind her has come her faithful but equally clueless lackey "Dodgeball". For those who do not know, Dodgeball is semi-literate and regularly demonstrates a failure to be able to understand even the most simplest of internet posts. Very often entire threads are ruined because of the sheer volume of posts that it takes to explain to Dodgeball what is being said. Both are of the opinion that complaints are highly risky. Provided they are conducted sensibly and with good reason, they carry little risk. My own feeling is that they are not worth entering into because they never succeed and the complainant never stands to gain anything by complaining.

There is a high profile case that Harding is currently getting her grubby knickers in a twist about, despite her knowing nothing about the case. For instance, Harding isn't aware that two hearings took place, so it was not an innocent letter that was taken to be an EAC2 without the debtors consent. The debtor had ample time to withdraw before the second hearing. The debtor also made high profile internet posts, encouraging others to attend the bailiff's renewal hearing to "put a stop to this scumbag committing further crimenal[sic] offences" Harding's lies and distortions have somehow tried to make out that the poor debtor didn't know that he was making a complaint and that he was being "advised" by others, myself included. This proves beyond doubt that the woman cannot be trusted.

Before continuing, it is important to be aware of CPR 84.20(4) and CPR 84.20(5):
(4) The complainant is not liable for any costs incurred by the certificated person in responding to the complaint, unless paragraph (5) applies.

(5) The court may order the complainant to pay such costs as it considers reasonable if it is satisfied that the complaint—

(a) discloses no reasonable grounds for considering that the certificated person is not a fit person to hold a certificate; and

(b) amounts to an abuse of the court’s process
So unless there are no reasonable grounds AND it amounts to an abuse of process, there can be no costs awarded.

Furthermore, if we refer to the explanatory memorandum for The Certification of Enforcement Agents Regulations 2014, we will see the following at paragraph 7.4:
At present, a complaint about an enforcement agent can be made to the court if the
enforcement agent has acted in a way that calls into question whether they are a fit and
proper person. However, this process has not always been used for this purpose and has in
some cases turned into unnecessarily lengthy litigation, with the associated costs
involved, over matters of procedure or fees which have separate complaint provisions.
These Regulations provide the judge with the opportunity to dismiss, at an early stage and
without significant costs having been generated, complaints which do not relate to an
enforcement agent’s fitness to hold a certificate.
This further protects complainants from the risk of a costs order. If the judge decides at an early stage that a full blown hearing is not required, he can make a decision without the need to hold one. I have one such decision in my possession whereby the judge did exactly that and whilst he was critical of both the bailiff and his employers, he did not revoke the certificate but recommended that the employer gave the bailiff further training on what he can and cannot take control of.

If applied correctly, a debtor/complainant is perfectly entitled to instigate an EAC2 if (s)he wishes. Contrary to the usual idiotic nonsense from both Harding and Dodgeball, the complainant will not suffer a costs order unless it can be shown that the complaint has been malicious, pursuant to CPR 84.20(5).

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#2 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 11 Oct 2017 10:03

There is perhaps one more thing to address regarding EAC2 complaints. It is in response to the idiot, Collin's drivel. For those who don't know, Colin is a bit of a troll who trawls the internet looking for people to criticise when they aren't afforded the right of response. He never tries to help people. Here is the idiot Collin's nonsense with my responses:
When you write letter of complaint, You have no influence on how it will be received
Correct. If you write a letter of COMPLAINT, it should be taken as such

If you are laying a complaint to the court about a bailiff and how they have done their job, Then you are questioning the bailiffs fitness to do the job
Nobody said otherwise. Are you Dodgeball in disguise?

I really don't see how the court can treat a complaint letter in any other way than an EAC2 complaint
Nor me, which is why I suggested a letter to the judge asking him to take into consideration the bailiffs actions, rather than a letter of complaint

Seeing what has happened to EAC2 complainants in the past i think it is a dangerous game to suggest to someone that it is the right path to follow
You're "seeing what has happened in the past" is basically believing the rubbish that Sheila Harding has spouted. What that woman knows about EAC2s could be written on the back of a postage stamp

Just my 2 cents
And it's not even worth that
As I have posted previously, a judge will determine the strength of a case PRIOR to assigning it to a full blown hearing. If it is not deemed appropriate or strong enough, the judge will deal with it there and then. Judges should only allocate hearings to those cases that are deemed serious enough to question a bailiff's right to hold a certificate. I know of no matters where this has not been the case.

Lee_D1981
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 Jan 2018 23:19

#3 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by Lee_D1981 » 16 Jan 2018 23:51

Hi
I have just come across this forum and was wandering if you could help me
I have a court hearing this Friday 19th January in the county court in London for a eac2 complaint it wasn’t filled out on the eac2 as I was never told that it has to be, I’ve had emails from the court saying the judge has read my complaint and asked for a response from the enforcement agent then set a hearing date for this Friday, I still haven’t received a copy of the bailiffs response I have no legal training and don’t know what I’m meant to be doing
Many thanks

User avatar
Schedule 12
Posts: 13471
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 21:23
Location: Philippines
Contact:

#4 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by Schedule 12 » 17 Jan 2018 05:32

A letter is not an eac2 complaint. The law says it must be on the correct form.

You woukd have been been bettrr to have made a claim rather than a complaint. A claim in thecsmall ckaims track hurts more.
Run this Checklist. If no joy, then we'll fix it
Author: dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#5 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 17 Jan 2018 06:41

Lee_D1981 wrote:
16 Jan 2018 23:51
Hi
I have just come across this forum and was wandering if you could help me
I have a court hearing this Friday 19th January in the county court in London for a eac2 complaint it wasn’t filled out on the eac2 as I was never told that it has to be, I’ve had emails from the court saying the judge has read my complaint and asked for a response from the enforcement agent then set a hearing date for this Friday, I still haven’t received a copy of the bailiffs response I have no legal training and don’t know what I’m meant to be doing
Many thanks
If you are having second thoughts about the complaint then now is the time to point out to the court that the correct form has not been submitted. If the hearing goes ahead and you are awarded costs against you, it will be difficult to argue against the order on the basis that the correct form has not been submitted.

In your favour, having read the response from the bailiff, the judge has decided that the bailiff needs to attend a hearing. If you lose, you need to point this out to him. The purpose of him reviewing the case prior to a hearing was to provide him with an opportunity to dismiss the case if he felt that it had no reasonable grounds for success.

I've read your other post and I am struggling to see what you are complaining about. You committed a criminal offence by interfering with controlled goods and were lucky not to have been charged with that, along with any criminal damage caused to the lock or clamp. What are you saying the bailiff has done that is serious enough for him to be stopped working?

Simply providing a handwritten receipt showing change of ownership is not really sufficient evidence that your mrs sold the car to you - How many friends and relatives do you think pull the same stunt as that after getting a parking ticket? We see it almost every day. Do you think a judge, on the balance of probabilities will view it as a genuine sale? Why would she sell the car to you but continue friving it herself? Have you any evidence that money passed from you to her?

You are not going to like this last bit but if you have no legal training and don't know what you're meant to be doing, wtf are you doing instigating proceedings? Finally, gloating about "beating bailiffs", being gobby and obstructive and then posting the clips on YT will not go down well with the court. In fact, if you lose, the other side could use this as evidence that you are vexatious towards bailiffs and have abused the courts process. If you are that kid from Hastings, I would say that there is a very good chance that costs will be awarded against you.

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#6 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 17 Jan 2018 08:39

Schedule 12 wrote:
17 Jan 2018 05:32
A letter is not an eac2 complaint. The law says it must be on the correct form.

You woukd have been been bettrr to have made a claim rather than a complaint. A claim in thecsmall ckaims track hurts more.
Just to correct you on this, and indeed the chimp who wrongly claims the exact opposite, the correct position is that it is at the judges discretion as to whether the letter is to be taken as an EAC2 complaint (CPR 3:10):
3.10 Where there has been an error of procedure such as a failure to comply with a rule or practice direction –

(a) the error does not invalidate any step taken in the proceedings unless the court so orders; and

(b) the court may make an order to remedy the error.
Courts are mindful that LIPs are prone to errors and will generally try to accommodate them. On the flip side, it is not a given that a letter will be taken as an EAC2. The chimp is relying on internet posts from Harding regarding an EAC2 that she knows nothing about. She has previously promised to provide us with a full transcript from the hearing but thus far has failed to do so. As she has no boyfriends at DCBL, one can only assume that she has been trying to obtain the transcript from the complainant and that he has failed to provide it to her.

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#7 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 17 Jan 2018 11:02

Just for clarity, lee seems to think that just because the judge has allowed the complaint to proceed to a hearing, he is ring fenced from costs.

Lee: You are not ring fenced from costs. The bailiff in your video acted exemplary despite provocation from yourself. You have no grounds for complaint whatsoever. I told you about the judge approving a hearing in order to assist you when the inevitable application for costs falls. Your biggest problem will be to explain away your gloating and bragging on YT where you have set yourself up as a bailiff baiter.

Your case shows no reasonable ground to succeed and will not succeed. That is the first limb settled. You have openly gloated and bragged about bailiff baiting on YT. What do you think the judge will do when he sees that? Do you think he will allow his court to be the platform for troublemakers like you? Get a grip sonny - For your good, not mine.

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#8 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 17 Jan 2018 11:05

I am "Legally Bland" in the comments. The name is a tribute to an autistic solicitor friend of mine who stalks me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM7OWWH1Nps&t=29s

Can someone please explain to this gobby little upstart that he is heading for a disaster if he goes to court on friday.

User avatar
Amy
Admin
Posts: 4104
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 22:47

#9 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by Amy » 17 Jan 2018 11:28

What is the complaint about? The bailiff clamped the vehicle and then removed the clamp because the vehicle was not worth much.

What did he do that warrants a complaint?

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#10 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 17 Jan 2018 12:03

There has been no wrongdoing to warrant a complaint. Lee has offered no explanation or justification as to why a complaint should have been issued.

He has stated:

1. There was no warrant - None was required
2. No wet ink signature - None was required
3. The "assistant" didn't have ID - None was required

Lee is guilty of reading crap off the internet which is sadly not true. He stands to be hit with a costs order as this is one of the few examples of a vexatious complaint.He is on drugs if he thinks he is going to find a judge who sympathises with him.

If Lee has any sense at all, he will contact the court and cancel the hearing while he still can. His actions won't have been in vain if he does. Some scumbag, moronic, masonic, satanic solicitor will have put a fair bit of work into this, thinking they are guaranteed 3 or 4 bags at the end of it. It may not be our favourite moronic, masonic, satanic solicitor but it will be a similar scumbag. If lee cancels now, the scumbag gets the square route of FA.

Lee_D1981
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 Jan 2018 23:19

#11 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by Lee_D1981 » 17 Jan 2018 18:34

I’ve not complained about this bailiff but the second bailiff who turned up tried to assault me then refused to identify himself then left the car for two days clamped and refused to remove it the clamp was not damaged and I have photos to proof it,

As for costs I think you need to read this

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/421/made

Lee_D1981
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 Jan 2018 23:19

#12 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by Lee_D1981 » 17 Jan 2018 18:37

Complaints as to fitness to hold a certificate

9.—(1) Any person who considers that a certificated person is by reason of the certificated person’s conduct in acting as an enforcement agent, or for any other reason, not a fit person to hold a certificate, may submit a complaint in writing to the court.

(2) No fee is payable for submitting a complaint under paragraph (1).

(3) A complaint submitted under paragraph (1) must provide details of the matters complained of and explain the reason or reasons why the certificated person is not a fit person to hold a certificate.

(4) No complaint submitted under paragraph (1) may be considered by the judge until the certificated person has been provided with a copy of the complaint and given an opportunity to respond to it in writing.

(5) If on considering the complaint and the certificated person’s response the judge is satisfied that the certificated person remains a fit and proper person to hold a certificate, the complaint must be dismissed.

(6) If—

(a)the certificated person fails to respond; or
(b)on considering the complaint and the certificated person’s response the judge is not satisfied that the certificated person remains a fit and proper person to hold a certificate,
the complaint must be considered at a hearing.

(7) If a complaint is to be considered at a hearing under paragraph (6)—

(a)the certificated person must attend for examination and may make representations; and
(b)the complainant may attend and make representations, or may make representations in writing.
(8) If after a hearing the judge is satisfied that the certificated person remains a fit and proper person to hold a certificate, the complaint must be dismissed.

(9) No appeal lies against the dismissal of a complaint under paragraph (5) or paragraph (8).

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#13 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 17 Jan 2018 20:27

Lee - You came on here asking for advice.

I live and breathe bailiffs every day of my life. I know more than all of those fools on YT and wherever else you read. I haven't just got out of bed and decided that I am an authority like people such as Paul Patterson do.

I post to help debtors, not bailiffs. Please trust me when I tell you that you are best dropping your complaint.

You have nothing to gain by continuing - Financially or otherwise. Your YT videos set you up as a bailiff baiter and someone who may have a vendetta against bailiffs. When your complaint fails on Friday, the bailiff's solicitor WILL show the judge your YT videos and the solicitor WILL argue that you have abused the courts process.

This is not a game and their solicitor will put a charge on your house if you lose. is it really worth it?

Lee_D1981
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 Jan 2018 23:19

#14 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by Lee_D1981 » 17 Jan 2018 20:46

I’m not a bailiff baiter and I’m going to be showing the judge all of my YouTube videos if he asks to see them I put in my complaint that the clamp was removed by me and I even showed the police the clamp at no time was I arrested or charged with anything yes the police took the car for one night and yes I had to pay for the release of it but it was returned the very next day and the money was refunded back to me and I’ve had a apology from them for doing it in the first place and I recorded them saying it all which was told to them and had no problem with me recording them as it’s not illegal to record, what I will do I will call the court tomorrow and if they confirm to me that I could have to pay costs then I will consider withdrawing it
The reason I put the videos on YouTube is so people can make there own minds up about who was right or wrong and at the end of the day if I’m in the wrong I want a judge to tell me that then others will learn from it but if every one did nothing no one would learn anything.

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#15 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 17 Jan 2018 21:04

Fair enough - As long as you stick to your promise of sharing the result with others.

I find it difficult to accept that a man who owed a fee and cut off a clamp will win over a judge - Especialy when he comes on here admitting that he doesn't know what he's doing.

As I said, this isn't a game. There is an evil old woman named Sheila Harding who is in bed with JBW. She will be watching your case like a hawk and will be itching to post about the outcome. You will be doing future debtors a disservice so think about that as well.

Lee_D1981
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 Jan 2018 23:19

#16 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by Lee_D1981 » 17 Jan 2018 21:43

i never owed anything that is the point, the ticket wasn’t in my name it was in my wife’s name, I opened the door to him and said hello mate how can I help the next thing he’s trying to grab my phone out of my hand he had to walk at least six feet towards me to do it that in itself is illegal then he walked of saying that he is going to leave My car clamped not my wife’s car then he refused to identify himself to me four times which he’s not allowed to do he had no camera on and was wearing nothing to say he was a enforcement agent, I have never said that I cut off his clamp and caused criminal damage. All I had to do to remove the clamp was to wriggle it and it came off. I understand this isn’t a game and I’m not trying to treat it like a game, I will seek legal advice tomorrow and as I said I will publish what happens either way Over the weekend.

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#17 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 17 Jan 2018 21:54

Lee - As I have tried to explain, handing over a grubby receipt is not evidence. Do you have evidence of money changing hands? The courts are not idiots you know?

Lee_D1981
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 Jan 2018 23:19

#18 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by Lee_D1981 » 17 Jan 2018 22:03

Yes I have proof I withdraw the amount from my bank the morning I went and got the car and as I said before it’s not a grubby receipt that’s not what is in question it’s the behaviour of a different bailiff that is in question watch over the weekend when I release the video and you will understand what I’m talking about

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#19 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 17 Jan 2018 22:12

Ok that's fair enough but so far, all you have provided is YT videos of bailiffs acting impeccably and you acting like a gobby little upstart.

Bragging about not paying council tax and not paying dart charges and not paying bailiffs is hardly likely to endear you to the judge.

Not blowing my own trumpet here because I am absolutely nothing but in the very restricted area of EAC2 complaints, I would back my opinion against that of any random lawyer. You stand to win absolutely nothing yet risk a costs order of around £3k against you - Why?

Lee_D1981
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 Jan 2018 23:19

#20 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by Lee_D1981 » 17 Jan 2018 22:30

I’m not bragging about not paying council tax again no where do I say I don’t pay things like council tax and dart charge if I owe something I pay it but I will not and never will pay bailiffs.
With the dart charge we was not aware of it and it was paid to dart charge.
Same as the council tax all paid and upto date have I posted anymore videos since September no I haven’t because it’s not every day bailiffs visit my house,

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#21 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 17 Jan 2018 22:46

Mate - as i have told you, I live and breathe bailiffs 24/7. The name "Legally Bland" is a pisstake of a lunatic solicitor who defends bailiffs.

I've told you my opinion based on experience and inside knowledge of EAC2 complaints.

I also think that judges at the lower end act as arbitrators rather than judges. If you think you will land lucky and find a judge that supports your silly claim and debt avoidance background then good luck to you.

just for a wake up call, no bailiff has ever lost an EAC2 hearing. Do you really think yours will succeed?

Lee_D1981
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 Jan 2018 23:19

#22 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by Lee_D1981 » 19 Jan 2018 12:39

Case has been put on hold until March for the ea to send in all his evidence as he didn’t send anything in, this isn’t the end of it.

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#23 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 19 Jan 2018 14:35

That should give you ample time to prepare properly for it and to ensure that your video evidence is considered.

Failing to provide ID when asked is quite a serious breach. However, I doubt it would be enough to justify the bailiff losing his certificate. The same applies to trying to grab your phone. He was quite entitled to clamp the car and it would have then been up to you to make a claim using the prescribed process.

I'd probably accept that the above are reason to consider an EAC2 complaint and more importantly, the judge thinks so as well. This doesn't mean you will succeed though. You must understand there is a massive difference between making a complaint about a bailiff and making a complaint to the court about his fitness to hold a certificate. Many people are confused by the word "complaint" and think that they are just entering a complaints procedure. They are not - They are entering a legal process.

I suspect that when the judge finds on the side of the bailiff that his legal representative will ask for costs. Your previous behaviour will be discussed, including your bragging on YT and removing the clamp. This is where you will need to be prepared to argue why costs should not be awarded.

The fact that the judge finds against your complaint does not mean that it had no reasonable grounds of success and the fact that you post videos on YT does not mean that you have abused the court's process - Both limbs fail.

John The Baptist
Posts: 356
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 17:22

#24 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by John The Baptist » 20 Jan 2018 10:53

Just to add to the above (and this is just my opinion - It hasn't been tested in court).

I don't think that the second bailiff had any right to actually be at the premises. There are only 2 places that a bailiff may take control of goods, on a highway or at the relevant premises. Once the bailiff has entered the premises (and the driveway must surely be classed as premises as opposed to a highway), he does not have the automatic right to re-enter. He most certainly doesn't have the right to take control of goods for a second time:
(2) The enforcement agent may enter the premises on a second or subsequent occasion only—

(a)if the enforcement agent has reason to believe that, since the occasion of the enforcement agent’s last entry, there have been brought on to the premises further goods of the debtor of which control has not yet been, but may be, taken; or

(b)where the enforcement agent was prohibited from taking control of particular goods at the time of the original entry by virtue of regulation 10(2) (control not to be taken of goods if those goods are in use and the enforcement agent considers that a breach of the peace would be likely if an attempt were made to take control of them).
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013 ... on/24/made

Lee_D1981
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 Jan 2018 23:19

#25 Re: EAC2 Complaints - The Facts

Post by Lee_D1981 » 20 Jan 2018 12:53

Thank you for the advice I do appreciate it, all my YouTube videos have been removed and my channel will be shut down once the case is over this case isn’t just over the ea clamping the car it’s more to do with the way in acted after clamping the car, is there any time limits that they have to remove the car in ( I know it’s a minimum of 2 hours before he can remove but this ea left it for two days) he also said in court that he had no intention of removing it but I have a recording of him saying it’s going to be removed thanks again

Post Reply