SUCCESS! paying a fine to court now marstons want the money

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chel
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#1 SUCCESS! paying a fine to court now marstons want the money

Post by chel » 24 Feb 2014 21:04

Hi there,

I have been paying off a court fine for a tv lience on a fortnightly rate of £10 due to the fact that I'm currently on benefits due to redundancy. One payment I had paid however was not for the £10 it was £5 due to having to spend that little extra on gas so I have heating and hot water for my daughter. I didn't ignore the payment I just paid a little less and then my next payment I made as normal of £10. However the court had already sent this to MARSTONS who are rude and not helpful at all. All day I have been on the phone back and forth trying sort this out as they have said if payment is not made in full in next 7 days they will come and remove goods. I have spoken to national debt helpline who advised me that due to my circumstances of being on benefits and being a single mum the court can take the fine back MARSTONS also informed me the court can take the fine back but the person i spoke to within the fines department are telling me this information is wrong.

I am worried to leave my house in case they catch me going out I'm now not taking my daughter into nursery in case they turn up when I have to pick her up I'm being fobbed about all for paying less on one payment I could've ignored they payment altogether but I didn't as I understand this is a priority bill.

I'm not eating or sleeping and scared as MARSTONS are scumbags and are hell bent on getting extra money by including their fines.

please can anybody help on what i could possibly do. everything I have been told by national debt helpline the courts are denying. marstons also wont let me pay in instalments they want it all in full. how can I give them something I don't have?

i have asked for an email address for the courts fine department so I can send them correspondence in writing as this will be quicker then post they are telling me there's no email address and I would have to write.. by this time the 7 days from the 21st (date on letter) would be up and the scum will be at my door.

hope this makes sense to you. PLEASE HELP

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Hithard
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#2 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by Hithard » 24 Feb 2014 21:26

Hello Chel,
As usual Marstons are being heavy handed again and the courts advice next to useless. If you are on benefits then you are classed as a vulnerable person. Please see http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Ba ... eholds.htm
Be aware that Marstons will invent fictitious fees which though they'll say otherwise you do not have to pay.

A bailiff may not break into your home or get a locksmith to let them in to levy on your property. You do not have to let a bailiff in even when they lie to say that they'll come back with police or locksmiths. Deploy the NORIROA. It revokes everything that follows. A bailiff's certificate, Warrant of Execution, High Court writs, Liability Orders and Distress Warrants are not a license to be on property without permission. NORIROA. http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/St ... ailiff.htm

It may help if you have a go at this as it may lead to the bailiffs being called off too http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/finelegal.html
If it throws up anything let us know and let you know the next course of action.
Stay strong Chel. You are not alone.
Descendite ne illegitimi

chel
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#3 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by chel » 24 Feb 2014 21:59

Hi thank you for this info. I have seen and heard about noriroa. Is this something how i should put in place now or do i wait until bailiff turn up?

I see alot of post in regards to marstons thought i was the only one

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jasonDWB
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#4 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by jasonDWB » 24 Feb 2014 22:38

We get complaints amount Marstons every day, and rudeness is something they are well known for. Their obsession is money, so we are on the case where it hits them where it hurts, in the pocket.

Your circumstances have changed. Under Section 85 of the Magistrates' Court Act 1980 the court has power to remit fines where there has been a change in the financial circumstances of the offender.

Under Section 165 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003, the court has power to remit fines where the fine has been imposed without an ascertainment of means.

You need to write to the sentencing court for the attention of the fines officer.
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chel
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#5 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by chel » 25 Feb 2014 10:53

Would you know how i can get the court to take the fine back? They are telling me they cant but have been told they can by national debt helpline and by marstons themselves.

chel
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#6 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by chel » 25 Feb 2014 10:56

Also im worried abput them taking not only my stuff but my daughters is this something they can do?

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monkeynuts
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#7 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by monkeynuts » 25 Feb 2014 11:14

They cant take your daughters items -

Use this letter and send it to the fines officer as Jason says above:
The Court Manager
[NAME OF] Magistrates' Court
[Address 1]
[Address 2]
[Address 3]
[Postcode]

[DATE]

BY POST AND BY EMAIL
name@where.gov.uk


Dear Sir/Madam

Re: [YOUR NAME + FINE REFERENCE]

The above-mentioned court fine has been passed to bailiffs however I have had a change in financial circumstances since I was fined.

[SAY HOW YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE CHANGED E.G., JOB LOSS/ SPLIT WITH PARTNER/HOMELESS]

I have sought independent legal advice and I make this request because I now understand that Section 85 of the Magistrates' Court Act 1980 the court has power to remit fines where there has been a change in the financial circumstances of the offender.

Under Section 165 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003, the court has power to remit fines where the fine has been imposed without an ascertainment of means.

I am able to pay the fine in instalments of £[AMOUNT] each [WEEK/MONTH] STARTING ON [date] until the fine of £[AMOUNT] has been paid and the final payment of £[AMOUNT] will be made on [DATE] which discharges the fine.

It is not for me to contact the bailiffs because they do not follow court rules and refuse to allow me to pay in instalments, and they charge costs not sanction by the court.

The bailiff company is charging fees or costs not sanctioned by the court and I understand this commits an offence under Section 78(5) of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980 and you should treat this letter as a written formal complaint in this aspect of the matter. Any contract between HMCTS and its commercial partners remain a matter between the parties.

For completeness I ask that in considering this complaint to take into account the following law, the court during the case of Bernard Loynes v Beswicks Solicitors [2010] Queens Bench Division ruled that (enforcement) charges that go beyond the standardised fee schedules should require the Court's sanction to be certain that the fees are lawful.

The judge in Stokes v British Mutual Banking Co Ltd [1886] The Times July 18, 6c confirmed that the fees that are far higher than the sums permitted or which are not allowed by the fee scale should not be charged, and since there are no sums permitted by the court for the enforcement of unpaid fines, there are no statutory fees due.

It is no defence for bailiffs to say the fees are "universal custom of the trade" or claim that statutory fees are too low so to permit deliberate over-charging, Black v Standage & Price [1831], The Times June 27, 6e.

Non-statutory charges benefiting the bailiff might not be lawful, Lumsden v Burnett [1898] 2 QB 177

And crucially, the judge presiding over the landmark case of Walker v Retter [1911] 1 KB 1103 ruled that no person shall be entitled to any fees, charges or expenses for levying a distress, or for doing any act or thing in relation thereto, other than those specified in a prescribed fee schedule. There is no prescribed schedule of fees for unpaid court fines.

If I am forced to pay non-statutory fees then I reserve the right to recover all fees paid under protest in a civil court claim from the Secretary of State for Justice, Veale v Atwood [1833] The Times February 2, 5g, CP


If you are unable or unwilling to accept these terms in full then please clearly mark your response letter with the words FINAL RESOLUTION and I will ask the Parliamentary Ombudsman to intervene on the grounds the department is intransigent.

I request that all communication between us is made in writing or other durable form so that all parties involved can maintain a paper trail. This is to protect the parties from any misunderstandings that can occur in a telephone conversation.

Yours faithfully,


[NAME]

Encs:
(If applicable)
Payment of balance of the fine amount
[NAME OF BAILIFF COMPANY], for information only.
An awake populous is a bailiffs worst nightmare!

chel
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#8 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by chel » 25 Feb 2014 16:27

thank you for the above letter template much appreciated will get onto this now. happy to know they will not be allowed to take anything of my daughters aswell she would be distraught.

i was hoping to email this to the fines officer as its quicker then posting but they are telling me they do not use email which again i do not believe. clearly they didnt think i would contact helplines or get online advice and even when confronting them with this over the phone they are still denying it.

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#9 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by monkeynuts » 25 Feb 2014 16:38

Just to be clear whilst the law say what the can and cannot take - they will try it on if they can. Bailiffs as you can read throughout this whole forum are wholly untrustworthy and believe they are above the law.

Should the decide to take items that are not yours the best advice is to let them and record everything on a camera phone and screw them after. Whilst this may sound harsh and painful at the time its easier in the long run as the police will more than likely side with the bailiff due to they lack of knowledge
An awake populous is a bailiffs worst nightmare!

chel
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#10 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by chel » 25 Feb 2014 16:58

thanks monkeynuts will be sure to record them if/when this happens.. I imagine they send out these big bully intimidating type of guys and this is what worries me the most. im too scared now to take my daughter nursery even putting the bins out im doing very late at night.

its not like i wasnt making the payments i've been making payments to the court however due to things happening one week when i was due to pay i couldn't afford the full amount and instead paid half. they also told me all my payments have been late due to the fact it takes a day or two to show on their system once i've made a payment over the phone (have no other way of paying, was told i would get a payment card but still don't have this) even though they know i get paid every other thursday and this is the day i agreed payment so in that case it is always going to be late and they should have made me aware about how long it takes to show on their system and set it for the mondays after i get paid in that case so that the money clears in time. hope that made sense lol

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jasonDWB
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#11 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by jasonDWB » 25 Feb 2014 17:35

Deploy the NTPNTL. Its a Notice to Produce and Notice to Leave. It puts the bailiff on notice he is required by statute to produce his documents and evidence of his ID and warrant (or liability order), which you can make copies using your mobile and order the bailiff to leave the premises using an Act of Parliament.

You can post the documents here on this forum with your personal details hidden (including any bar-codes). We can tell you if they are kosher. Here is a template.

Also this post by Mark1960 nicely summarises the pros and cons of using the notice.

And print this and keep it handy. http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/fr ... tFines.pdf
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monkeynuts
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#12 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by monkeynuts » 25 Feb 2014 18:26

One thing is not to be scared - thats their weapon.

You have the law on your side.
An awake populous is a bailiffs worst nightmare!

chel
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#13 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by chel » 25 Feb 2014 22:22

R they allowed into her room she has a small tv/dvd player in there?

vinny g
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#14 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by vinny g » 25 Feb 2014 22:51

Chel.
They cannot take your Daughters things.It wont get that far..should they show again(and ignore the(NORIROA) you refuse them admittance.
Do not be scared by their threats and intimidation..they are worthless.
Reading your first post id copy a letter to your MP..detailing your payment plan and one instance of a missing fiver..if he doesnt think the Courts havent been very heavy handed in this case id be very surprised.
The advice you have been given above is the best..stick to it and relax a little.
V.

chel
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#15 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by chel » 26 Feb 2014 11:36

have contacted the local mp offices spoke with one of her caseworkers they only advised to me contact citizens advice who will probably give me the same information as national debt helpline. their phone lines opened at 10am i called them dead on 10 was on hold for 40 minutes then the line went dead have been trying to call back but keep getting a busy line tone :oops:

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#16 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by monkeynuts » 26 Feb 2014 12:27

Just gone back through your thread...

How much have you left to pay on the fine?

Are you in receipt of HB/CTR or any other state benefits?
An awake populous is a bailiffs worst nightmare!

chel
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#17 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by chel » 26 Feb 2014 12:31

the amount left to pay is £285.00 I do get HB and CTR

chel
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#18 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by chel » 26 Feb 2014 12:32

Also get income support plus child tax and child benefit.. however my income support is not full amount as they are taking money off that for an over payment and social fund i have received

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monkeynuts
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#19 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by monkeynuts » 26 Feb 2014 12:48

OK you are classed as a vulnerable household then.

If you can pay the fine amount that is left then you can do so at the atm style machine in the Mag. Ct and they will only ever ask for the amount due!

Get the letter off about change of circumstances off that I posted above and also send this off:
[NAME OF DEPARTMENT INSTRUCTING ENFORCEMENT ACTION]
[NAME OF] Council 
[ADDRESS1]
[ADDRESS2]
[ADDRESS3]
[POSTCODE]

[DATE]

FORMAL COMPLAINT


BY POST AND BY EMAIL
name@where.gov.uk

Dear Sir/Madam


Re: [TYPE OF DEBT] [ACCOUNT NO.] VULNERABLE HOUSEHOLDS

I make this formal complaint because I received a bailiff from you whose name I understand is Mr. [NAME] on [DATE] collecting the aforementioned [TYPE OF DEBT] and demanded the sum of [AMOUNT].

Mr. [NAME] was aware this is a vulnerable household because:

The door was answered by my [NAME OF CHILD] who is aged [NUMBER OF YEARS] years and forced him/her to sign a document without a responsible adult being present.

The door was opened by [NAME OF PERSON] who is does not have a proper understanding of English but Mr. [NAME] forced him to sign a document without knowing what he was signing for or why he needed to sign it.

The door was opened by [NAME OF PERSON] who has obvious mental health issues and is diagnosed with [WHAT?] and not have a proper understanding of the circumstances but Mr. [NAME] forced him to sign a document without knowing what he was signing for or why he needed to sign it.

I have been diagnosed by my doctor with [WHAT?] and I have been very unwell.


I am classed as having a disability because [SAY THE NATURE OF YOUR DISABILITY]

I am recently bereaved because my [DESCRIPTION OF RELATIVE OR PERSON] had died on [DATE]

I am a single parent family bringing up [NUMBER OF] children on my own

I am in receipt of [NAME OF OUT OF WORK BENEFIT] which is a prescribed benefit because I am unemployed.

I am heavily pregnant



[ADD ANY FURTHER REASONS FOR YOUR COMPLAINT HERE]

But Mr. [NAME] failed to withdraw from the property,

I make this complaint because I believe Mr. [NAME] abused his authority by dishonestly taking advantage of the circumstances contrary to official advice given to enforcement agents by the Ministry of Justice for which Mr. [NAME] should have been properly trained.

The advice is available from: http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/cou ... agents.pdf - on page 9, and the Local Government Ombudsman report of 29 November 2012 recommends on pages 7 and 8 the bailiff to withdraw from the property and check with the council on how they should proceed. This recommendation has not been followed.

I appreciate the guidelines are not statutory but I understand that following a judicial review, R (on the application of Purnell) v South western Magistrate's Court [2013] EWHC 64 (Admin). The court required South Western Magistrate’s court that is must follow its own court guidelines when administrating a case, and I believe this is sufficient authority that official guidelines or any guideline that is published by an authority must be followed.

I request that all communication between us is made in writing or other durable form so that all parties involved can maintain a paper trail. This is to protect the parties from any misunderstandings that can occur in a telephone conversation.

COMPLAINT RESOLUTION

1. Return the case to council administration within seven (7) days of the date of this letter


2. Confirm in writing to me at the above address this has been done


If you are unable, or unwilling to resolve this complaint in full, please mark your response letter with the words FINAL RESOLUTION and I will ask the Local Government Ombudsman to intervene. If I do not receive a letter from you marked in this way then I will begin a new complaint on the grounds of failing to follow prescribed complaints procedures.

Yours faithfully,



[YOUR NAME]

Cc: [NAME OF BAILIFF COMPANY], for information only.
[NAME OF MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT], MP
Should the bailiff come then hand them this letter through the letterbox or window and video it all:
Dear Sir/Madam

Re: Your visit to [1st LINE OF ADDRESS]

Further to your visit, I now give notice because this is a vulnerable person for the purposes of civil enforcement as defined by the guidelines made by the National Standards for Enforcement Agents published by the Ministry of Justice.

Where a debtor falling into a vulnerable person’s category is discovered by an enforcement agent, then the matter shall be referred back to the court or the creditor and no seizure of goods may proceed.

The Local Government Ombudsman report of 29 November 2012 recommends on pages 7 and 8 the bailiff should withdraw from the property and check with the council to see how they wish to continue.

This document is delivered by hand and a photograph of you has just been taken as proof of delivery and I respectfully ask that you quietly leave the property.

Yours faithfully,



[NAME]
An awake populous is a bailiffs worst nightmare!

chel
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Joined: 24 Feb 2014 20:41

#20 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by chel » 26 Feb 2014 16:01

GOOD NEWS!!!!!! after days of ringing back and forth the courts, debt helpline, and bailiffs and after copy and pasting a letter that you posted on this forum to send to the courts.. The courts have now taken back my fine and have set out to take small reductions out of my benefits!! HOORAY!

However I am still concerned the bailiffs may request I pay them their fee of £85.00 but I will just call the police on them as this is no longer in their hands.

Thank you all for you help I'm glad I found you and I just hope everyone gets as lucky as I did :)

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monkeynuts
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#21 Re: was paying a fine to court now marstons want the money.H

Post by monkeynuts » 26 Feb 2014 16:22

Well done! If they come after the fees then its unlawful and you can take action against them - but I doubt that will happen
An awake populous is a bailiffs worst nightmare!

chel
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Joined: 24 Feb 2014 20:41

#22 Re: SUCCESS! paying a fine to court now marstons want the mo

Post by chel » 26 Feb 2014 17:00

Thank u all so much for the help and advice! Glad a forum likes this exist i dont know what i would have done otherwise.

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