ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

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rossco247
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#1 ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by rossco247 » 28 Jan 2015 22:06

Firstly, what a great forum. Its been very helpful during quite a stessfull evening.

I will try and keep this as short as Possible. I received a parking ticket in June 2013 and basically was a bit forgetful and lazy (and rebellious) and let it roll out of control.

15th of Jan 2015 I received a Notice of Enforcement - Final Opportunity letter from Rossendales through the post. Asking for an amount of £157, If I do not reply with a payment then an Enforcement Agent will visit my address and a further £235 will be added. At this point I thought "crap" I better pay this next week ( it didnt state how many days I had before the visit anywhere on the letter, so I was waiting for payday.)

Today I was at home and I live with my parents. My Dad arrived back from work and said there is a weird hand delivered letter hanging out of the door! It was from ROSSENDALES. A crappy sheet of paper with "FINAL NOTICE." on the top.
It states I need to settle the balance immediately. If not done within 24 hours I may incur further costs.

and then (in pencil) it has a scribbled amount of £392 and a phone number for a Mr Gamble. Next to this (Again in pencil) he has scribbled down "Failure to pay will result in your vehicle being removed."

Does this seem like they have kept to the regulations? Obviously he spotted my car outside and didn't even bother to knock the door!

I rang him and he has said I have until next Tuesday to try and get the money together. I haven't been handed anything by hand, and this piece of scribbled paper doesn't seem very official to me.

I live with my parents so I'm sure he cant touch the household belonging, but i'am terrified he will come and take my car and it's difficult for me to just hide it somewhere as I need to get to work at 4am every morning.

Any advice on the next step would be highly appreciated. I dont mind paying the original £157 but the £392 is just disgusting for a £60 fine.

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#2 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 28 Jan 2015 22:30

rossco247 wrote:Firstly, what a great forum. Its been very helpful during quite a stessfull evening.

I will try and keep this as short as Possible. I received a parking ticket in June 2013 and basically was a bit forgetful and lazy (and rebellious) and let it roll out of control.

15th of Jan 2015 I received a Notice of Enforcement - Final Opportunity letter from Rossendales through the post. Asking for an amount of £157, If I do not reply with a payment then an Enforcement Agent will visit my address and a further £235 will be added. At this point I thought "crap" I better pay this next week ( it didnt state how many days I had before the visit anywhere on the letter, so I was waiting for payday.)

Today I was at home and I live with my parents. My Dad arrived back from work and said there is a weird hand delivered letter hanging out of the door!
It is possible the bailiff doesn't know where you live, or you could be a victim of what is called "hit & run" fraud. It is Rossendales Modus operandi to use non-qualified people to stick a notice out of a letterbox and leg it because someone discovers they dont have a bailiffs certificate.

They do it to add the £235 charge without having a certificated bailiff attend. Its what they do when they are short of certificates.



rossco247 wrote: It was from ROSSENDALES. A crappy sheet of paper with "FINAL NOTICE." on the top.
It states I need to settle the balance immediately. If not done within 24 hours I may incur further costs.
It is not a statutory enforcement notice. It counts for nothing. Give it to your local trading standards.


rossco247 wrote: and then (in pencil) it has a scribbled amount of £392 and a phone number for a Mr Gamble. Next to this (Again in pencil) he has scribbled down "Failure to pay will result in your vehicle being removed."
What vehicle?




rossco247 wrote:Does this seem like they have kept to the regulations? Obviously he spotted my car outside and didn't even bother to knock the door!
Your car will always be targeted. Its easy money for bailiffs - unless something goes horribly wrong and its exempt goods for the purpose of civil enforcement. Either hide it, or make sure its exempt in the meaning of Regulation 4 of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013



rossco247 wrote: I rang him and he has said I have until next Tuesday to try and get the money together. I haven't been handed anything by hand, and this piece of scribbled paper doesn't seem very official to me.
Take a photo and post it up. Hide your personal details. Lets have a look at it.



rossco247 wrote: I live with my parents so I'm sure he cant touch the household belonging,
Your parents goods are safe. An enforcement agent may take control of goods only if they are goods of the debtor, Paragraph 10 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.



rossco247 wrote:but i'am terrified he will come and take my car and it's difficult for me to just hide it somewhere as I need to get to work at 4am every morning.
Do you use it in your employment? then if yes, then its exempt. Bailiffs might try and bend the rules, but only earlier today, that police landed a hapless bailiffs certificate a big bill for nearly four months rental car charges for the person whose car was illegally taken.



rossco247 wrote: Any advice on the next step would be highly appreciated. I dont mind paying the original £157 but the £392 is just disgusting for a £60 fine.
The only ways you can stop a bailiff recovering an unpaid civil traffic debt are:


1. You APPEAL the offence by making a STATUTORY DECLARATION or a WITNESS STATEMENT. This article explains how to do that and get some grounds to support your appeal. Enforcement stops at 4pm the day you file the appeal at court - which can be done online. 

2. If you are a vulnerable person or in a vulnerable household then Regulation 10(1) of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013 provides statutory protection for vulnerable households from enforcement action.  You can have the council withdraw the bailiff from your property. This article explains how to do that. 

3. Pay the council direct. Paragraph 31 of the Taking Control of Goods: National Standards 2014 says when enforcement action has ceased, the bailiff cannot enforce the recovery of fees.

4. Do an enforcement compliance check, and see what other grounds are available to you to stop the bailiffs.
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rossco247
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#3 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by rossco247 » 28 Jan 2015 22:44

Awesome (speedy) advice. I'm very grateful.

It does seem like there's a lot of holes here... But actually getting someone to do something about "the law" on this occasion is a major battle.

Firstly I'd be happy to pay the council directly but that seems like mission impossible for most people =(

What seems more weird is that they didn't even state the "7 day" deadline on the first notice.... Surely they have to make that clear?

In terms of vehicle.... It could have been the choice of 3 as they did not state the reg! Is it possible to change the log over to my parents name quickly before next week I wonder?

I will upload the letters tomorrow morning as I'm worn out from it all now.

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#4 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 28 Jan 2015 23:32

rossco247 wrote:Awesome (speedy) advice. I'm very grateful.

It does seem like there's a lot of holes here... But actually getting someone to do something about "the law" on this occasion is a major battle.
If the need arises, its very easy taking a council to court because the court only follows legislation, the council is liable for the bailiffs acting on its behalf, so all the costs are eventually thrown at the bailiff.


rossco247 wrote:Firstly I'd be happy to pay the council directly but that seems like mission impossible for most people =(
Do whatever it takes, the warrant ceases to have effect. Or just dont make yourself or your goods available. The debt dies.


rossco247 wrote:What seems more weird is that they didn't even state the "7 day" deadline on the first notice.... Surely they have to make that clear?
The law says you must be 'GIVEN' a statutory notice of enforcement at least seven clear days excluding public holidays and Sundays before a bailiff starts enforcement.

The law is Regulation 6 of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013 and Paragraph 7(1) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. The allowed methods giving the notice are prescribed in Regulation 8 (1)(e).

This is what a Notice of Enforcement actually looks like.

If the notice was not given to you at least seven clear days excluding Sundays and public holidays then all enforcement action that follows is not compliant with enforcement regulations. You can start the formal complaints procedures as shown here

Ask the bailiff company for a tracking number for the Notice of enforcement. If they cannot produce one then use Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 by making a sworn declaration you have not been given the notice. Here is a template Statutory Declaration. It also revokes all the statutory fees the bailiff has charged you. Once you have sworn it in before a solicitor, give copies by email to the council, the bailiff company and by text message to the bailiff's mobile. You can get the council CEO's email address here. Ask the council to cease and disist from continiuing non-compliant enforcement action. If you get fobbed off, speak to the Ombudsman.

rossco247 wrote:In terms of vehicle.... It could have been the choice of 3 as they did not state the reg! Is it possible to change the log over to my parents name quickly before next week I wonder?
Logbook does not prove ownership. Only names the person responsible for its use on the road. You got to hide them.


rossco247 wrote: I will upload the letters tomorrow morning as I'm worn out from it all now.
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#5 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by rossco247 » 29 Jan 2015 06:32

Thanks Jason.

I will upload the pics later today.... Going by the regulations, it seems that posting a notice of enforcement letter to the residence still qualifies it as "GIVEN" in the eyes of the law?! Even if there is no guarantee the person owing (me) has actually recieved it.

I will have to try and hide my car for now but I cannot Continue doing this until the debt dies =-/

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#6 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 29 Jan 2015 09:34

The Notice of Enforcement is a completely different prescribed document.

You could well be a victim of Hit & Run fraud
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rossco247
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#7 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by rossco247 » 29 Jan 2015 18:00

Hey guys. Sorry for the delay, busy day at work.

I've contacted mikton Keynes council and even though they were very helpful and understanding they would not accept any payment but they did put a hold on the case for 14 days to give me extra time to start an appeal.... So I've earnt myself a little breathing space to ring and start my appeal tomorrow.

I'm uploading both letters..... The 1st is the notice of enforcement received via royal mail post. The second is the note they shoved through my letterbox which they class as an agent visit (adding on £235).
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#8 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by rossco247 » 29 Jan 2015 18:03

This is the second.... Please give your opinion on whether I have a case to fight the £235 and how to go about it.

Again.... What a great bunch of individuals you are to help out people like this in stressful times. I will definitely be donating.

Thanks
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#9 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 29 Jan 2015 18:25

Neither of those documents are regulation enforcement notices. They count for nothing as far as the law is concerned.

This looks like Rossendales are looking to collect an old PCN and pocket the money.



You ought to give those documents to trading standards.
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#10 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by rossco247 » 29 Jan 2015 19:04

Thanks again Jason.

The lady at the council did Confirm that rossendales have been Instructed to collect the debt so I don't think there trying there luck as such..... I do believe they are trying to gain the £235 visit fee fraudulently though.

Your advice is really appreciated but As this is my parents address, I don't want to put them in a position of constantly having to deal with these thief's on the doorstep and hiding my car is not a long term possibility.

I just want to get this sorted out asap. I can pay the £157 but I am not willing to pay the visit fee. Would you recommend me phoning rossendales directly and informing them that they haven't stuck to regulations and ask for the £235 fee to be removed?

Sorry I'm not ignoring your advise I'm just looking for the quickest resolution to save my parents embarrasment and confrontation

Thanks again

rossco247
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#11 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by rossco247 » 29 Jan 2015 19:06

P. S. I will be contacting trading standards tomorrow also.

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#12 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 29 Jan 2015 19:08

Just tell the council the warrant cannot be executed because they do not have your current address, and when the bailiff has returned the warrant, ask they contact you when they are ready to accept payment. Until then, consider you will matter closed.

Your parents can deploy the notice.

An enforcement agent may take control of goods only if they are goods of the debtor, Paragraph 10 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. There is nothing they can do at your parents house as far as the law is concerned.
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#13 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by doberjae23 » 05 Feb 2015 17:28

Hi , wondering if anyone can help me ...

I had a rossendale bailiff attend my house x2 times and post correspondence through the letterbox in relation to a previous joint tenancy with a "previous" friend of mine.

During the whole tenancy I was in receipt of JSA and therefore council tax benefit also.

I have been told I am also liable for his share even though the council are aware I was in reciept of the benefit throughout the whole tenancy.

I have provided evidence of this and also provided the whereabouts of the other occupant and his contact details etc.

I just want to know with a liability order if they are able to gain access to my property using force or not?

I have contacted the bailiff to let him know I have provided evidence on the matter and I am awaiting an outcome.

Is there any timescale on when they will pass the debt back to the council so they can chase the other occupant?

Any advice would be appreciated ..

Thanks

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#14 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 05 Feb 2015 17:44

doberjae23 wrote:Hi , wondering if anyone can help me ...

I had a rossendale bailiff attend my house x2 times and post correspondence through the letterbox in relation to a previous joint tenancy with a "previous" friend of mine.
This is Rossendales Modus Operandi. Its called Hit & Run.




doberjae23 wrote: During the whole tenancy I was in receipt of JSA and therefore council tax benefit also.
Regulation 2 of The Council Tax (Deductions from Income Support) Regulations 1993 says deductions can be made directly from prescribed benefits to pay council tax arrears.

If the debt being recovered is not yours, then Rossendales can do nothing at your address as far as the law is concerned. An enforcement agent may take control of goods only if they are goods of the debtor, Paragraph 10 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.



doberjae23 wrote: I have been told I am also liable for his share even though the council are aware I was in reciept of the benefit throughout the whole tenancy.
Its a liability that is joint and several, so they can pursue either liable person. If you are on benefits for the liability period and claimed benefits, then start the formal complaints procedure giving the above-mentioned legislation.




doberjae23 wrote: I have provided evidence of this and also provided the whereabouts of the other occupant and his contact details etc.

I just want to know with a liability order if they are able to gain access to my property using force or not?
Nothing in legislation enables a bailiff to apply force or violence to enter a domestic property to recover council tax.



doberjae23 wrote: I have contacted the bailiff to let him know I have provided evidence on the matter and I am awaiting an outcome.
The bailiff will take no notice. You must make a formal complaint to the council.



doberjae23 wrote: Is there any timescale on when they will pass the debt back to the council so they can chase the other occupant?
90 days from the date the bailiff was instructed.
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#15 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by rossco247 » 16 Apr 2015 10:29

I thought I'd come back here to say thanks for all the advice from forum members and the advice on the boards for helping me in the above matter.

As soon as I received a visit from the bailiffs, I sent in a late witness statement explaining I was not living at the address they had listed for me and that any penalty charges/late charge fee letters had not been recieved. This automatically put a hold on the bailiffs for 42 days while it was investigated (get the late witness statement in asap... It gives massive breathing space)

Just tell them you haven't been living at that address for however long... Even if your still at that address it doesn't matter (you could have moved back to parents etc etc)

So... 2 months later I receive a letter back telling me all late charges and bailiff charges have been revoked and I'am no longer liable to pay... Result... Yet I may still receive the original parked ticket from milton Keynes. I recieved that today, a fine of £50.... Better than £450 though :)

It's frustrating that there is so many people that actually pay these bullies as they think there's no way out. I'm proof that there is.... NEVER PAY BAILIFFS!!

Again a big thanks to this forum and I hope coming back and telling my story can ease a few restless minds going through the same thing.

Ross

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#16 Re: ROSSENDALES Having a Laugh!!!

Post by Andy » 16 Apr 2015 16:51

Good job Ross.
2nd Year University Law Student.

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