Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

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Tigerlilly
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#1 Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 09:33

Hi there, I was kindly sent a link to this site by a member of another forum and hoping somebody here can help.

Two years ago I had my house repossessed and was offered rented accommodation in a different borough. I was receiving council tax benefit and JSA and informed the old council that I no longer lived at the address and was claiming new housing benefit with the new council. A few weeks later I received a bill for 'overpayment' of council tax from the old council which I agreed to pay off in instalments.

I got into difficulties last year after starting work on a 0 hour contract and never getting the hours promised. I am now in rent arrears and council tax arrears with my new landlord and council and have been trying to pay these off as they are priority.

Two weeks ago I received a Notice of enforcement regarding my old council tax bill and after reading some of the forums I wrote directly to the old council explaining my situation (I enclosed photocopies of my wage slips, rent and council tax arrears) and asked them to accept a token payment of £1 a week until my situation improves and to take the debt back off the bailiffs. I've heard nothing from the council and 2 days ago I received a 'reminder' notice from the bailiffs saying if I don't arrange a payment with them they are sending someone out and will add further charges of £250 for the visit. The letter states not to pay the council and I must pay them direct.

I went to the CAB yesterday and they informed me that they can't ring either my old council or the bailiffs as they are not within my new borough and basically I'm screwed and have to pay up. I don't have the money to pay off the bailiffs, I'm struggling as it is to repay my rent arrears and am now on Universal Credit. Sorry for the long post but I'm at my wits end and really worried about these people calling to my new address. I'd be glad of any help or advice. Thanks.

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#2 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by jasonDWB » 07 Mar 2015 09:41

There are a number of options open to you. It would be best run a compliance check and select the most appropriate one best suited to you.

http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/ctaxlegal.html

Let us know which and we can help you get started.
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Mark1960
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#3 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Mark1960 » 07 Mar 2015 09:47

Contact the bailiff immediately and make an offer. Unfortunately, it will have to be more than £1.00 a week. If you are working, offer £10 a week and see what they say.

Then put a letter in writing to the council concerned, stating that you have not received a response to your original letter. Advise that you are negotiating with the bailiffs and could the council ensure that whilst these negotiations are ongoing, the bailiff does not attend your property, thus meaning you will incur a further £235 fee. There is no need to visit, you just ask to be able to pay the debt at an affordable and maintainable rate. You do not have any funds or access to funds so you will not be able to make a lump sum payment.

Stress your financial predicament and explain the history, as per your post. Ask them to confirm no visit will be made whilst you are attempting to negotiate an affordable payment plan.

Copy the bailiffs in on the letter.

When you've got that in, we can see if theres anything we can do about getting the debt or part of it reduced.

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#4 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Mark1960 » 07 Mar 2015 09:48

Would add, the telephone conversation should be to the bailiff and the letters should be to the council and the bailiffs office. Tell the bailiff on the phone that you have contacted the council requesting no visit be made whilst you are negotiating a repayment plan and there is no reason for him to visit as you are not refusing payment.

Tigerlilly
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#5 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 10:06

Hi and thank you both for replying so quickly. JasonDWB I've had a read through the compliance check and there are a number of things, firstly is this one: Did a bailiff call about a council tax debt in connection with address you were not living at for the period giving rise for the liability? I wasn't living at the address at the time but the council are claiming it was an overpayment dated from 17th Feb 2013 to 31st March 2013. Secondly there is this one: Have you offered to pay the liability direct to the council but the council has refused it? I have written to the old council and asked to pay them directly but they have never acknowledged my letter (it was sent recorded delivery).

Mark1960, thanks for your post but I simply haven't got £10 a week to pay the bailiffs. I'm trying really hard to keep this roof over my head at the moment as there was a letter of eviction hanging over my head due to increasing rent arrears. I shall ring the bailiffs and the council though and see what they say but there's no point me offering something that I know I can't afford :-(

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#6 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 10:07

Also meant to say I'm no longer working and am waiting for a new claim with Universal Credit to come through so really struggling.

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#7 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by jasonDWB » 07 Mar 2015 10:12

Revoke the liability because you were not living there. Template. that should end enforcement action.
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#8 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Mar 2015 10:14

For council tax, a bailiff cannot force entry. The only item at risk is a vehicle outside the property but there are exemptions.

For me, your priority debt is the rent arrears, and you must ensure this is covered before tackling any council tax debt.

I wouldn't offer £10 a week, I would offer no more than £15 a month, the rate that someone unemployed would have deducted from benefits.

Always remember, you have no legal obligation to deal with the bailiff, nor pay anything through him. The debt is owed to the council and no-one else.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

Tigerlilly
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#9 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 10:33

Cheers guys! My main concern is that the amount was for an overpayment by the council tax department for the total sum of £88. I stupidly ignored them and next thing I know I've been whacked with court costs ect bringing the total up to over £350. I worked out how much I have actually paid off the debt and so far I've paid £130. The bailiffs have said that before the cost of the £75 they added on I owed the council £237 which is still extortionate for an £88 bill but my own fault for not dealing with it. Will that template still be applicable for a benefits overpayment? I have my new tenancy agreement here and it's dated 4th February 2013 should I photocopy that with the letter? I totally agree with your comments Pote Snitkin and my rent is the main priority I just don't want to get bullied into paying more than I can afford if I ring the bailiffs.

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#10 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 10:40

Ooops, sorry have just reread the template and it says to enclose the new tenancy agreement, should I leave the first paragraph out or just reword it slightly as there hasn't been anyone out yet and I've not paid anything to the bailiffs just a £4 payment last week direct to the old council.

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#11 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Mar 2015 10:42

Well as Jason says, you weren't the occupier at the time the council are claiming the overpayment for, so you owe nothing. Your new tenancy agreement has the date you started living at your current address, so sending them a copy should sort it out.

So you've already paid £130 to the council for this debt? For a period you didn't live there? :shock:
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

Tigerlilly
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#12 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 10:49

Yep, up until December last year I had been paying bits off the amount they said I owed with court costs added on even though I had moved into my new property on the 4th February 2013. Sadly I didn't find these sites until a few days ago. I'm going to print that template off and post it off today, should I also send one to the bailiffs or just the council? I really don't want to deal with the bailiffs any more than I have to but they said if they haven't heard from me by 23.59 on the 7th March they would be sending someone out which will probably be Monday!

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#13 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Mar 2015 10:51

Then the council owe you £130! Pay them not a penny more.

Do you have a car outside?
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

Tigerlilly
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#14 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 10:57

Really? God I wish I had looked online sooner. No car Pote I just hope this letter puts this thing to bed once and for all, are you sure about not paying them anymore? I don't want to end up in even more trouble.

Tigerlilly
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#15 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 10:59

Should I send the same letter to the bailiffs or just to the council? If the bailiffs show up on Monday should I just ignore them or tell them I have sent a letter to the council?

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#16 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Mar 2015 11:05

You have paid them £130 for a council tax bill for an address you didn't live at for that period. Surely they must have realised that?

If you have no car, you have no worries. The bailiff cannot force entry, or climb through windows or over fences. They can only enter through an unlocked door or if you let them in.

They may knock and shout and winge, but that is all they can do. They are trying to enforce for a debt you don't owe! Trust me, they have no power over you. They use idle threats and people's ignorance of the law.

My preferred method is to stand by the window, cup of tea in hand, giving them a gentle wave (maybe even blow them a kiss), as they stomp their feet in frustration! :twisted:
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

Tigerlilly
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#17 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 11:19

Haha@blow them a kiss! I'm still unsure where I stand because it's for an overpayment. Here's what the letter says...
Reason for calculation...Change of Start Or End Dates.

You have been overpaid Council Tax Benefit. The amounts you have been overpaid are shown below.

Period of overpayment...17th Feb 2013 to 31 March 2013. Old entitlement £14.44 New entitlement £0.00 Weekly difference £14.44 Total Amount of Council Tax Benefit Overpaid...£88.66. Recovery of the overpayment...£88.68 will be recovered against your council tax account.

Will the template still apply as from what I understand they are saying that they have overpaid a benefit and not that I didn't pay this council tax. I hope this makes sense?

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#18 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Mar 2015 11:27

But council tax benefit isn't physically paid to anyone - it just gets deducted from the bill, so they can't have physically overpaid you anything.

The fact remains that between the dates they state, 17.2.13 - 31.3.13, you didn't live at that property so you cannot be liable for the council tax for those dates. Let them work out the maths, end of the day they are trying to make you pay for a period you are not liable for.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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Andy
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#19 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Andy » 07 Mar 2015 11:31

I would suggest in the realistic world with the bailiffs turning up, don't even open the door, because some of these guys (their not all bad you know) will stick their foot in the door and just let their weight come in. So the safest bet is to rule out that possibility and do as Pote said, stand by the window, and film EVERYTHING.
2nd Year University Law Student.

Tigerlilly
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#20 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 11:57

Well that was weird! I've just had a phone call from the bailiffs, wonder if they look on these sites? The guy was trying to get me to pay a small amount over the phone today to keep them off my back for a month. I've politely told them over the phone what my situation is regarding rent arrears and the dispute with the council over this bill but they weren't interested. Least that saves me from sending the same letter out twice :-)

Pote...'But council tax benefit isn't physically paid to anyone - it just gets deducted from the bill, so they can't have physically overpaid you anything.' That's exactly what I thought, how could they have made an overpayment and where did it go? The property was empty.

Andy, I'm now living in a flat and have NO intention of opening up my door or windows to anyone or engaging in any kind of conversation. That phone call has only confirmed why I don't want to talk or have anything to do with these people, he started off nicely, tried to baffle me with bullshit and calculations then ended by saying 'fine, the conversation has been noted and you've said you're not going to pay us anything, goodbye.' Menacing to say the least.

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#21 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Andy » 07 Mar 2015 12:02

They do look in on these forums, we have people come here all the time trying to discredit this board and waffle on about such and such, never mind what the law actually says!

So do be careful - there is a video somewhere on YouTube of a bailiff actually admitting they had been following a debtor on web forums and watching the advice he had been given. This is why we have a private members area when thing go pear shaped where we can help sort out the court case. It takes it immediately out of public view.
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#22 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Mar 2015 12:02

Tigerlilly wrote: Pote...'But council tax benefit isn't physically paid to anyone - it just gets deducted from the bill, so they can't have physically overpaid you anything.' That's exactly what I thought, how could they have made an overpayment and where did it go? The property was empty.
It'll be down to some porly trained numpty. They've reduced your council tax benefit for the period to £0 per week, but not amended your liability for the same period.

The account should say 'Entitlement for the period - 0.00 per week. Liability for the period - 0.00 per week'. Someone hasn't amended the second part.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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#23 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Mar 2015 12:04

Andy wrote:They do look in on these forums, we have people come here all the time trying to discredit this board and waffle on about such and such, never mind what the law actually says!

So do be careful - there is a video somewhere on YouTube of a bailiff actually admitting they had been following a debtor on web forums and watching the advice he had been given. This is why we have a private members area when thing go pear shaped where we can help sort out the court case. It takes it immediately out of public view.
They certainly do, and several members of other advice forums are cheerleaders for bailiffs, or even are bailiffs. They even admit it! :evil:
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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#24 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Andy » 07 Mar 2015 12:16

I think I would die from laughter if I saw the usual suspects all lined up with pom-poms giving it "GIVE ME A 'B' - GIVE ME AN 'A' ... GOOOO BAILIFF!"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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#25 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Mar 2015 12:31

Peter would probably mis-spell it.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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#26 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Mark1960 » 07 Mar 2015 12:34

If you are claiming benefit, then you can offer to pay £3.50 a week and they cannot demand you pay any more. Offering £1 a week will not be accepted. If you are happy for the bailiff to visit you and have another £235 added to your account, then we may be able to do other things to help. This would mean you taking on the bailiff though and being prepared to slam the door in his face when he visits.

If you are disputing that you owe the council any money, I would put a formal complaint into the CEO of the council immediately. Explain that you weren't living there etc and that you were paying tax for a different address. Tell them that the house had been re-possessed. You also need an explanation as to how an £88 debt rose to over £350. Ask that enforcement action be suspended whilst this complaint is being investigated.

You need to get something in writing one way or another to stop the £235 being added. Yes you can fight the bailiffs but do you really want to if we can get them stopped before they visit?

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#27 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 13:25

Okay I'm just reading through the letters and statements that have been sent out by the council over the past 2 years. I think I might need to go to the CAB as nothing makes any sense.

I received the letter of overpayment posted above on 9th April 2013. The same date I had received another statement...Reason for Calculation...Claim Cancelled Moved Out of Area. The benefit starts on: 28th Nov 2012 The benefit ends on: 16th Feb 2013. Your claim for benefit has been cancelled from the above date for the reason. So why is the other letter stating there has been an overpayment of £88 from the 17th Feb?

24th April another statement says Reason for Bill: Benefit. Benefit Amount due £939.
26th June another statement, Reason for Bill: Void Exemp Total Amount Due £284.
December 3rd 2013 a Summons for Council Tax, Total amount £162 with added costs of £75 costs £237.
Then a final letter on 26th January 2014 Re: Council Tax Arrears of £359 saying they were unable to set up an attachment of earnings and have sent out a payment card which I then started to pay off the so called arrears.

Does this make any kind of sense to anyone on here? I think I'll photocopy these letters and send them in with the template and ask them to work them all out because they make no sense at all to me.

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#28 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Mark1960 » 07 Mar 2015 13:31

What date did you change address?

Have all those letters (& summons) gone to your new address?

Do you know what date the house ceased to be in your name? ie when was it officially re-possessed?

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#29 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by jasonDWB » 07 Mar 2015 13:35

I offer a "rent a rotweiller" service. I chase away your bailiff by telephone. Does anyone want an earwig on the side of me doing a live bailiff chase-away on tigerlily's bailiff? PM me your mob and tiger, your bailiffs name and number.
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#30 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Mark1960 » 07 Mar 2015 13:42

I think a formal complaint is needed here, followed by a txt to the bailiff advising that the matter is now in dispute & subject of a formal complaint.

There is a good chance that even though Tiger moved, she was still liable for tax at the house, as it was still legally hers.

It may well end up that tax is owed and she will have to deal with the bailiff-We need to stop the visit & ensure that £3.50 a week is all that is taken.

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#31 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 13:53

Hi Mark, I signed my new tenancy agreement on the 4th February 2013 and moved in on the 12th Feb. I wrote and told the old council the same day I moved as I didn't want any mix up with council tax benefit...ha ha, it couldn't get more messed up if it tried could it? Yes all these letters have been sent to my new address and the house was officially repossessed early March 2013 but I can't remember the exact date. My head is well and truly spinning after reading all of these statements.

Ha ha Jason, pity I didn't have a real Rottweiler!

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#32 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Tigerlilly » 07 Mar 2015 14:01

I have spoken to someone this morning from the bailiffs Mark, funnily enough his name was also Mark. I told him that I was writing to the council to dispute the amount as I wasn't living at the property but he wasn't interested, all he was interested in was getting a payment over the phone off me today. I'm not paying anything else until I find out the how's and why's as to all these letters, arrears and charges.

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#33 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Mark1960 » 07 Mar 2015 14:14

OK this is great-You seem to have done everything correctly. I can't work out what all the mumbo jumbo is that they've sent but lets get a formal complaint in now. By email if possible. Copy the bailiffs in:
Formal Complaint

CEO (put the name in if you have it)
Address

Dear Sir/Madam

I am being pursued by bailiffs for council tax arrears/benefit overpayments that I do not believe I am liable for.

I left my property on 12th February 2013 and wrote, advising your council of this on the same day. My house was subsequently re-possessed in early March of the same year.

I do not believe that I am liable for any tax, having being forced out of my home and made to move accommodation away from the area. My benefit was subsequently transferred to my new address.

I now have bailiffs threatening me with removal of goods. I wish to make it quite clear that I am currently experiencing great financial difficulty. I am at present unemployed, I am in arrears with my current years council tax and also in arrears with my rent.

I ask that you now credit my account accordingly and cancel recovery action with immediate effect. The worry and stress that I am presently feeling whilst trying to keep a roof over my head is not been halped by the added threat of bailiff action for a debt that I do not owe.

I would appreciate confirmation that recovery action has now been suspended, at least whilst this complaint is investigated. I would also advise that I am happy to appeal any decision regarding this council tax account and/or take the appeal to a valuation tribunal. I only ask that the council suspend enforcement whilst this process is carried out.

Thanking you in anticipation

Tiger
It may be that they are chasing you for the little bit of tax between 12th Feb & early March, when the house was re-possessed. We can challenge this in our own time. The important thing for now is to get the bailiffs out of the way.

Txt the bailiff now:
Case number ……

This matter is now in dispute. A formal complaint has gone in to both the council and your office. Do not attend my property until this matter is resolved.

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#34 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by jasonDWB » 07 Mar 2015 14:29

Tigerlilly wrote:
Ha ha Jason, pity I didn't have a real Rottweiler!
A real rottweiler can only bark. I can recite chapter and verse and if the bailiff hangs up on me, then it's interpreted as the bailiff is now willfully and culpable refusing to comply with regulations. I can still put the bailiff in front of the judge and I get to bite him on the arse.
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#35 Re: Council Tax Bill For Old Property & Enforcement Notice

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Mar 2015 14:51

Mark1960 wrote:
There is a good chance that even though Tiger moved, she was still liable for tax at the house, as it was still legally hers.
I would argue that as soon as she left the property and 'handed the keys' to the mortgage company, the property became legally theirs.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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