Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Quash the Liability Order. Suspend Enforcement. Disputing Liabilities. Claim Damages for Misuse of Enforcement Power.
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outlawipcc
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#176 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 27 Apr 2016 18:48

jasonDWB wrote:You can present the evidence of the perjure by giving the perjurious statement or comment and have them explain why it's a civil matter when under their own criteria, it is an offence.
That sounds reasonable enough to me. Some other useful information on the CPS website:

Cases Involving Allegations of Perjury
  • "Where a judge or magistrate believes that some evidence adduced at trial is perjured s/he can recommend that there should be a police investigation.

    The absence of such recommendation does not mean that there is no justification for an investigation
    ."
Not much agreement there with Humberside Police's Professional Standards Branch decision not to investigate the allegation:

13 January 2016 outcome letter from the force:
Humberside Police do not investigate allegations of perjury unless a request to do so comes from the court themselves.

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#177 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by jasonDWB » 27 Apr 2016 19:51

Then it's a section 1.

Do you want a solicitors referral? If yes. Give me in less than 250 words the grounds of the perjure and by whom and I'll propose it.
Author, Dealing with Bailiffs. Beat the Bailiffs
Instant phone consultation with me: Click here

outlawipcc
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#178 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 28 Apr 2016 18:20

GRIMSBY AND CLEETHORPES
MAGISTRATES’ COURT

(Code 1940)

Application to start a prosecution
(s1 Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980)

Listed: 26 April 2016


outlawipcc
(Prosecution)
  • v
Humberside Police
(Defendant)

STATEMENT OF EVIDENCE

LIST OF EXHIBITS

Magistrates’ Courts Act, s 1 (Information) Exhibit 1
Email from Humb Police Exhibit 2
Email to Humb Police Exhibit 3
Email from Humb Police Exhibit 4
Evidence supporting allegations Exhibit 5
Humb Police confirming recording of complaint Exhibit 6
Humb Police outcome of complaint Exhibit 7
Appeal against outcome of complaint Exhibit 8
Costs suspended until outcome of proceedings Exhibit 9
Council’s Witness Statement Exhibit 10
Screen shots of internet forum posts Exhibit 11
Council’s Exhibit (NELC12) Exhibit 12
Original letter to Administrative Court Exhibit 13
Original letter from Administrative Court Exhibit 14
Email “Read Receipt” from Council Exhibit 15
Email “Read Receipt” from Council Exhibit 16
Email “Read Receipt” from Council Exhibit 17
Letter to the Justices’ Clerk (query delivery of case) Exhibit 18
Letter to the Justices’ Clerk (query delivery of case) Exhibit 19
Letter to the Justices’ Clerk (requesting certificate) Exhibit 20
S 26 of the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015 Exhibit 21


1. This statement and the above listed provides evidence to support the information laid on 8.3.16 [Exhibit 1].

2. On 12.11.15, Humberside Police (‘HP’) responded by stating that a reported crime (one punishable as an offence whether occurring in criminal or civil proceedings), was a civil matter [Exhibit 2].

3. An email expressing dissatisfaction with HP’s response was sent 12.11.15 stating that a complaint would be submitted about whoever within the force made the decision. A request was made for the matter to be escalated for the attention of the Chief Constable so dissatisfaction of a subsequent decision would be subject to external scrutiny rather than the force investigating itself. [Exhibit 3].

4. HP made contact on 13.11.15, advising that all evidence should be collated to support the allegations [Exhibit 4]. HP confirmed in a letter dated 23.11.15 that the Professional Standards Branch was in receipt of the complaint. The advice was acted on regarding the evidence and a statement produce dated 2.12.15 [Exhibit 5]. A number of supporting documents were indexed but withheld awaiting assurance that they would be considered but the documents were never asked for.

5. A letter dated 8.12.15 from HP confirmed that the matter had been formally recorded (CO 461/15) and enclose a copy of the complainant report [Exhibit 6]. The letter (outcome) in relation to the complaint was sent on 13.1.16 [Exhibit 7] stating that unless a request comes from the court, HP do not investigate allegations of perjury and was a matter to be argued with the court.

6. On 15.1.16 Grimsby Magistrates’ court was forwarded HP’s outcome letter and asked if it would confirm that the North East Lincolnshire Council (the ‘Council’) had in fact produced a false witness statement and inform HP (the court had been forwarded the statement [Exhibit 5] on 11.12.15). The court replied in this matter on 26.1.16 stating that it would not be taking any action regarding the allegations of perjury.

7. An appeal against the outcome of local resolution was submitted on 25.1.16 [Exhibit 8] but to date there has been no update in relation to any progress made.

Exhibits supporting false statement

8. In summary, the council applied to the Magistrates' court to obtain a Council Tax liability order relating to the 2015/16 tax year. Payments were made in sufficient amount to meet the legal obligation to pay the sums set out on the demand notice and so the account was never in arrears.

9. The Council engineered a 'non-payment' scenario, by allocating monies to a disputed sum which related to a previous year's account that was under appeal to the High Court. That sum was suspended [Exhibit 9] pending the court's decision which has yet to be concluded. The Council allocate monies to the wrong account attributing that decision to believing that the sum was no longer disputed because the appeal had been withdrawn (paras 69 & 73 of the Council’s Witness Statement submitted for Council Tax liability hearing 30.10.15 [Exhibit 10]).

10. Evidence held supports that this claim was untrue, not on account of the appeal never being withdrawn (though it hasn't), but specifically because it is beyond all reasonable doubt that the council knew it had not been withdrawn. The Council posted monies to the suspended account on the premise that it believed the appeal had been withdrawn and therefore did so fraudulently.

11. It is beyond reasonable doubt that two internet forum posts [Exhibit 11] were the source of one of the Council’s exhibits (NELC12) referred to in its Witness Statement for Council Tax liability hearing 30.10.15 [Exhibit 12]. These were two letters on which the Council sought to rely in justifying having ‘no further reason to believe that the costs were being disputed’ because the ‘application for the Judicial review of the costs' had been withdrawn.

12. The original letters one dated 20.11.13 [Exhibit 13] was in response to the Administrative Court's recommendation to withdraw the judicial review claim as the process had prompted the Magistrates to produce a draft case and deemed there no longer a need for further action on their part as the process of stating a case was underway.
  • Note: The judicial review claim, which was a separate matter from the application to state a case for an appeal challenging the costs, was merely the vehicle used to get the Magistrates' court to comply with the procedure. The judicial review claim therefore was for a mandatory order, not a 'review of the costs' and so the case stated appeal challenging the summons costs had not been withdrawn.
The other letter dated 25.11.13 [Exhibit 14] was the Administrative Court's response to confirm that the letter to withdraw had been accepted and the Court file closed.

13. The letters contained in the Council’s submission had been redacted and matched the entries that were posted on the public forum. The forum is the only place from which those letters could be sourced in that form. The characteristics (redaction, formatting etc.) of the letters which the Council submitted to the court were identical to the forum posts [Exhibit 10].

14. The Council had for some reason not sought the original letters and made use of the website where every correspondence connected with the matter (albeit redacted) could be conveniently accessed. It is likely that if the Council had made use of the forum to produce its submission, it would have been informed from the regular updates posted that the case stated appeal was still being pursued. Even if the forum was not regularly viewed it was enough that it did once to source content to be certain that it knowingly made a false statement. The crux of the matter is that one of the posts from which the content was sourced [Exhibit 11] (though omitted) had the following commentary accompanying it which reinforced the matter in itself:
  • Back almost to square one.

    Although the judicial review claim for mandatory order was not entirely successful in mandating the Magistrates' Court to state the case (other than the draft), it would never have been known there was a possibility to negotiate the terms of a recognizance at the hearing. It took this process to prompt a response from the Justices at Grimsby Magistrates' Court.

    The next move then will be to arrange to appear before the Magistrates' Court to agree terms of a recognizance.
Receipt of correspondence acknowledged after judicial review claim withdrawn

15. The Council had acknowledged receiving letters (email attachments) by way of 'read receipts' returned on 15 January [Exhibit 15], 14 February [Exhibit 16] and 23 April 2014 [Exhibit 17] in respect of letters dated 10 January [Exhibit 18], 13 February [Exhibit 19] and 22 April 2014 [Exhibit 20]. Those letters, which were copies of correspondence sent to the Justices' Clerk concerned matters that left no doubt that the high court appeal was still being pursued, and sent after the judicial review claim for mandatory order was withdrawn.

16. The appropriation of monies was supported by the Council on the basis that it believed the appeal had been withdrawn, and on that basis alone. The council officer had therefore wilfully made a statement material in the proceeding, which he knew was untrue. As a consequence the Council now has a court order enabling it to enforce a fraudulently obtained sum, which is likely to accumulate because of additional costs which will over time to be sufficient in amount so the council will claim justification in taking measures such as bankruptcy, charging order or applying for a custodial sentence.

Improper exercise of police powers and privileges

17. HP’s decision not to act, especially in light of the indisputable evidence must amount to improperly exercising police powers under subsections (5) and (6) of Section 26 of the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015 [Exhibit 21] as clearly the failure to exercise a power is to the detriment of another person.

18. This statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

Dated this 25th day of April 2016

Signed:

outlawipcc
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#179 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 28 Apr 2016 20:24

Mr [outlawipcc]

Application by an individual to commence criminal proceedings by issue of summons.


This is an application by [X] to lay an information for the issue of a summons alleging an offence under section 26. Criminal Justice & Courts Act 2015 against Gillian Morley of the Humberside Police.

1). Mr X has been invited to attend Grimsby Magistrates Court for an ex parte private hearing and has declined the invitation.

2). I have read statements of evidence by Mr X dated 2nd December 2015 and 25th April 2016, together with those exhibits which were sent to the Clerk to the Justices.

3). I find that Mr X is aggrieved at a decision of the Grimsby Magistrates Court in October 2015 making or confirming a liability order in respect of allegedly unpaid council tax. He complains that the order was achieved because a Local Authority officer gave perjured evidence. He is aggrieved as well that the District Judge (Magistrates Court) hearing and making the liability order was complicit in the perjury and thus himself was guilty of perverting the course of justice.

4). I am told that no appeal has been lodged.

5). Mr X invited the Police to investigate the alleged perjury. The Police declined to. On 11th November 2015 Gillian Morley informed Mr X that the matter did not concern the police as it was a civil matter.

6). Mr X complained that the decision of the Police not to investigate was an improper exercise of a power in accordance with section 26 of Criminal Justice & Courts Act 2015, and that that failure to investigate triggers his current application.

7). Mr X has made a complaint to the Police. That has been rejected and Mr X is aggrieved by that.

8). I have referred myself to Stones Justices manual; and to R v West London Metropolitan Stipendiary Magistrate ex parte Khan (1979) and in particular to the explanation to the approach to issuing a summons by Lord Widgery C.J.

9). I have a discretion whether or not to issue a summons. I do not issue a summon because the application is vexatious
  • (a) Mr X seeks to proceed on an offence that is not designed for this type of circumstance. Further the application overlooks the reasonable person test in sections 26(4)(b) and 26 (5)(c).
    (b) His grievance is really about the October 2015 order and the evidence of the Local Authority.
    (c) He has had the opportunity to appeal the October 2015 decision but he has chosen not to.
    (d) He appears to be using this application as a collateral attack to (b) above.
N P Hayles

Deputy District Judge (MC)

26/04/2016

outlawipcc
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#180 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 07 May 2016 11:50

Julie Collins
Courts & Tribunal Manager
Humber & South Yorkshire Area


A Watts, Clerk to the Justices
Grimsby Magistrates’ Court
Victoria Street, Grimsby
North East Lincolnshire
DN31 1HN

06 May 2016

Dear Mr [outlawipcc],

I write in respect of your recent email to the Data Access & Compliance Unit under the name [outlawipcc].

The matter has been passed to me as this is not a Freedom of Information case.

There is no information to impart as you have already been sent the reasons for the decision made by Deputy District Judge Hayles on 26 April 2016.

If you are aggrieved by the decision not to issue a summons you can apply for judicial review of that decision.

You may wish to take independent legal advice before taking such a course of action.

I have sent you an attached guide which sets out the different stages in the procedure, along with information on fees and costs.

Yours sincerely,

Graeme Townell
Legal Team Manager
Grimsby Magistrates’ Court
It is unbelievable how much front these people have......suggesting an appeal in the High Court.

This is the court's track record when that advice is taken:

Chronology of events (from case bundle documents for high court court application)

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Pote Snitkin
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#181 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 May 2016 12:27

Have to say Outlaw, your persistence is admirable. They are intent on obstructing you at every turn.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

outlawipcc
Posts: 329
Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#182 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 07 May 2016 12:53

Pote Snitkin wrote:Have to say Outlaw, your persistence is admirable. They are intent on obstructing you at every turn.
The Council has not responded to my request for the authority itself to investigate the fraud under its own policies.

I predict that it will refuse to do so....hiding behind the police, LGO and the court all refusing to get involved. The court and LGO are threatening the casino justice system (judicial review) as an option for appealing their decisions. This is the weapon that all these sham organisations resort to in order to allow councils get away with crime.

I predict that the council will also have the front to pursue the fraudulent costs by instructing bailiffs (it has no other option) and increase the outstanding sum with various fees & charges until it can take more serious action. The Magistrates' court is bent enough to assist.

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#183 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by Mark1960 » 09 May 2016 23:31

Keep on keeping on mate

As Pote says, your persistence is admirable & I didn't hear too many complaining when your "Head H" campaign was going strong.

Your help and assistance to me regarding internal reveiw requests proved invaluable in my own "Head C" investigation.

outlawipcc
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#184 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 12 May 2016 16:37

North East Lincolnshire Council's letter in response to allegations of false statement etc., and for that crime to be investigated through its whistleblowing procedure.
  • Tony Maione - Monitoring Officer and
    Chief Legal Officer – Law
    Solicitor, LL.B. (Hons), LL.M.


    11 May 2016

    Dear Mr outlawipcc

    Re: Claims of false statement to defraud through council tax liability application

    I have reviewed your email dated 21 April 2016 and as you have commenced legal proceedings in relation to this matter and as perjury allegations are matter for the court, the Council is of the opinion that this issue should be dealt with via the court process in this instance.

    The Council would like to confirm that the address for service of any legal documents is:

    Tony Maione, Chief Legal Officer
    Legal Services
    North East Lincolnshire Council
    Municipal Offices,
    Grimsby,
    DN31 1HU.

    Yours sincerely

    Tony Maione, Solicitor
    Chief Legal Officer and Monitoring Officer

outlawipcc
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#185 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 13 May 2016 17:17

From: outlawipcc
To: Hanmer, Peter
Cc: Various
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016
Subject: Re: False statement to defraud through council tax liability application


Dear Mr Hanmer

Neither of my emails (see below) have been responded to or acknowledged, however, Tony Maione, North East Lincolnshire Council's Chief Legal and Monitoring Officer, has taken it upon himself to respond on your behalf (see attached) on 11 May 2016.

Mr Maione is exploiting the legal proceedings I commenced in order for the council to avoid its duty of investigating the fraud under its own policy. This approach is clearly inappropriate as his function is to ensure the law is complied with in all the authority's decision making. The Council obviously sees his role differently, which in this matter is to bailout the council for committing a criminal offence against one of what are termed customers.

Presumably the Council has deliberately delayed its response with the purpose being so it could be certain that the judge, in relation to the information laid, exercised his discretion by not issuing a summons for the purpose of bringing before the court the officer who wrongly stated perjury was not a matter for the police. Notwithstanding that the police and judge have justified their decisions on entirely spurious grounds, the decision to institute proceedings was made before the discovering that the alleged fraud should have been referred by complaints officers immediately to yourself when my formal complaint was submitted, as set out in my April 21 email.

This matter has highlighted further concerns about the inconsistency in the way the authority applies its policies, which suggests the taxpayer is being unnecessarily burdened in respect of the resources dedicated for their development and salaries attributed to the team supporting them.

I trust now that the council's failure has been highlighted, the procedure can commence in accordance with the 'Fraud Response Plan' as detailed in my April 21 email and as service manager you inform me of the steps being taken to address the matter.

Yours sincerely

outlawipcc
Posts: 329
Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#186 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 14 May 2016 16:30

I predicted they'd have the front, but is this anything to worry about?

Rossendales

Date: 11th May 2016

Rossendafes Ltd on behalf of North East lincolnshire Council Revenues & Benefits
Service - C Tax - TCE Ref: 550xxxxxxx Rossendales Ref: 28628956

All enquiries concerning this document MUST be made to Rossendales Ltd., not
North East Lincolnshire Council Revenues & Benefits Service


COUNCil TAX NOTICE OF ISSUE OF LIABILITY ORDER
INFORMATION PRELIMINARY TO DISTRESS

Following an application made by North East Lincolnshire Council a liability order was issued against you on 30/10/2015 in respect of unpaid Council Tax of £211.00 (including costs).

The balance outstanding in respect of the order is £211.00.

You must pay this sum IN FULL immediately and direct to Rossendales Ltd., NOT THE COUNCIL.

To make immediate payment call our 24 hour
automated payment line 0845 078 1194 quoting 28628956


Please note that any other amounts you may owe to the Council that are not covered by this liability order need to be paid as previously advised. Details on how to pay the amount shown above are explained on the enclosed leaflet.

If you cannot pay in full or dispute the amount due then either write to us at the address above or telephone us on 0844 701 3980 immediately.

If payment is not made in full within 14 days from the date of this notice, then distress may be levied upon your possessions. This means that we can list and remove your belongings and sell them at public auction to pay the amount which you owe.

If you want us to consider a payment arrangement you must complete the enclosed questionnaire in full, including details of your offer, and send-it to us, NOT THE COUNCIL, within 7 days. If we accept your offer we will write to you to confirm this within 7 days of receiving your offer. If your offer is unacceptable we will visit to levy distress, and you will have to pay extra fees as shown on the enclosed schedule.

ROSSENDALES LTD

Mark1960
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#187 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by Mark1960 » 14 May 2016 18:06

Its a 14 day letter. They are giving you 14 days to set up a repayment plan, otherwise enforcement starts and a £75 compliance fee will kick in.

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#188 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by Pote Snitkin » 14 May 2016 19:28

Mark1960 wrote:Its a 14 day letter. They are giving you 14 days to set up a repayment plan, otherwise enforcement starts and a £75 compliance fee will kick in.
Looks more like a compliance stage letter to me, before a visit and a £235 fee. However, the letter isn't compliant with TCG2013 reg 7(e).
7. Notice of enforcement must be given in writing, and must contain the following information—

(e) the following information about the debt—

(i) sufficient details of the debt to enable the debtor to identify the debt correctly;

(ii) the amount of the debt including any interest due as at the date of the notice;

(iii) the amount of any enforcement costs incurred up to the date of notice; and

(iv) the possible additional costs of enforcement if the sum outstanding should remain unpaid as at the date mentioned in paragraph (h);


It fails on (iii) & (iv) at least.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

outlawipcc
Posts: 329
Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#189 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 14 May 2016 20:50

Was hoping not to have had to go into the further aggravation of researching the possibilities of publishing a website to expose Humberside Police, the Chief Executive of NELC Council (past and present), LGO and Ministry of Justice for being as bent as the soviet sickle. That now seems unavoidable and will have to be the next step which will be a gamble, the risk being that I will have to rely on an MP (or other interested party with clout) who has the bottle to take the side of the victim over the parasites who will be offering all sorts of threats for them to turn a blind eye and undoubtedly offer rewards for doing so.

Humberside police have a new Police and Crime Commissioner promising results for the taxpayer (the previous one showed all signs of self service). It would be naive to expect this one to be any different, but one can only make judgment when, or if there's a response to the concerns raised.

I should have no fear of deformation charges if I were to include a website displaying a list of the following names, which is by no means exhaustive:

Humberside Police

Ex Humberside Chief Constable Tim Hollis

Humberside Chief Constable Justine Curran

Police Constable Thomas Blake

Detective Inspector Christine Calvert

Detective Inspector Paul Welton

Detective Sergeant Michael Wood

Chief Inspector Steve Tipple (Professional Standards Branch)

Inspector Allan Harvey

Detective Chief Inspector Michael Killeen (Intelligence Unit)

Her Majesty's Courts and Tribunal Service

District Judge Daniel Curtis

Deputy District Judge Daniel Curtis

Deputy District Judge Andrew Pascoe

Deputy District Judge Nicholas Hayles

Circuit Judge Mark Bury (North Eastern Circuit)

Alison Watts Justices Clerk for the Humber and South Yorkshire

Graeme Townell Legal Team Manager Grimsby Magistrates’ Court

=======================

The hangers on to the above list is endless. The Local Government Ombudsmen and Information Commissioner staff are also fair game to be added who are certainly part of the bogus watchdog organisations that the taxpayer is being conned into funding.

Mark1960
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#190 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by Mark1960 » 15 May 2016 10:04

Looks more like a compliance stage letter to me, before a visit and a £235 fee. However, the letter isn't compliant with TCG2013 reg 7(e).
No-Its definitely a 14 day letter. They're only asking for the amount on the LO, and haven't added the £75. Two years into the new regime, and they're still using an old template that talks about "levying distress". Very professional.

I like this bit:
You must pay this sum IN FULL immediately and direct to Rossendales Ltd., NOT THE COUNCIL.
There is no lawful obligation whatsoever to pay Rossendales at this stage, in fact, there never was, even in the days when 14 day letters were mandatory.

outlawipcc
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#191 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 15 May 2016 10:38

This from an earlier post (post #63)

Letter dated 8 Nov 2015.
Dear Sir/Madam

Special Payment Arrangement – Debt under Enforcement
Account Number .....


First payment, 01-Dec-2015 – £100.66
Second payment, 01-Jan-2016 – £100.67
Third payment, 01-Feb-2016 – £100.67

Payment frequency is :- Monthly

If you do not make the first payment before the date shown above, this arrangement will be cancelled without further contact and recovery action will be taken against you. The Council may proceed to recover the debt by [attachment] of earnings, deduction from your benefit via the DWP, or your account may be passed to an Enforcement Agent (bailiff) which could mean you could incur additional fees and the possibility of your belongings being removed for sale at auction.

If you are experiencing financial difficulties and are unable to commit to the above arrangement then you must complete the enclosed income and expenditure questionnaire making sure all areas are completed, with an offer of payment. The Council will in due course confirm if your offer to clear the amount is acceptable.

Debt Management Section
There was no enclosed income and expenditure questionnaire which the letter refers to, however, I did receive one previously which I personally handed in to the council weeks before (30 September 2015) with my income showing zero.

I have no car so there's no chance of the bailiffs controlling goods. My first thought was to hold back payments altogether (including this year's) so as not to run the risk of the council passing on enforcement fees, but that is unnecessary as the account relates to a previous year and the authority would be breaking the law if it were to allocate monies to an account against my wishes (though that has not stopped it before).

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#192 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by Pote Snitkin » 15 May 2016 11:32

For some reason, the rancid old banshee seems to think Outlaw is being ignored by all of us on here.
In his quest to find a website that will allow him a platform to publicise his long obsession with North East Lincs Council, ****** has now taken to copying his entire dispute onto the Freeman on the Land site...Get into more debt for Free. It's been a week since he posted......not a single poster has responded to him. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo ... sts./page3
She really is a bitter old fanny, ain't she?
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

outlawipcc
Posts: 329
Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#193 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 15 May 2016 12:53

Pote Snitkin wrote:For some reason, the rancid old banshee seems to think Outlaw is being ignored by all of us on here.
In his quest to find a website that will allow him a platform to publicise his long obsession with North East Lincs Council, ****** has now taken to copying his entire dispute onto the Freeman on the Land site...Get into more debt for Free. It's been a week since he posted......not a single poster has responded to him. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo ... sts./page3
She really is a bitter old fanny, ain't she?
She's referring to another website, but she doesn't see the irony in her comments...she's hardly being inundated with support for her $!*t stiring.

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#194 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by Pote Snitkin » 15 May 2016 13:56

Ah, I see.... with it being Sunday I just assumed... you know the rest. :roll:
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

outlawipcc
Posts: 329
Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#195 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 16 May 2016 07:29

Pote Snitkin wrote:
Mark1960 wrote:Its a 14 day letter. They are giving you 14 days to set up a repayment plan, otherwise enforcement starts and a £75 compliance fee will kick in.
Looks more like a compliance stage letter to me, before a visit and a £235 fee. However, the letter isn't compliant with TCG2013 reg 7(e).
7. Notice of enforcement must be given in writing, and must contain the following information—

(e) the following information about the debt—

(i) sufficient details of the debt to enable the debtor to identify the debt correctly;

(ii) the amount of the debt including any interest due as at the date of the notice;

(iii) the amount of any enforcement costs incurred up to the date of notice; and

(iv) the possible additional costs of enforcement if the sum outstanding should remain unpaid as at the date mentioned in paragraph (h);


It fails on (iii) & (iv) at least.
Rossendales letter states the following:
If your offer is unacceptable we will visit to levy distress, and you will have to pay extra fees as shown on the enclosed schedule.

ROSSENDALES LTD
There was no schedule enclosed, only an income/expenditure questionnaire and information on different ways to pay. I guess if that was argued, both Rossendales and the Council would just say prove it.

outlawipcc
Posts: 329
Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#196 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 16 May 2016 14:35

From: outlawipcc
To: A.Hobley@coinweb.lgo.org.uk
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016
Subject: Re: Confidential: Case ID - 15016673

Dear Mr Hobley

Complaint Reference 15 020 295

I think you should be informed that North East Lincolnshire Council has appointed Rossendales bailiffs to enforce the alleged outstanding Council Tax (see attached letter). The Council has this power only on account of being successful in hoodwinking the judge that it had been a legitimate approach to divert monies intended for the current year's account to another sum which it had agreed in writing was suspended whilst being disputed.

Although the schedule of fees referred to in the letter was not enclosed as stated, I believe those fees are likely to amount to £310, comprising a £75 compliance fee and £235 enforcement charge which when added to the unwarranted summons costs will amount to £430 – the sum which I will potentially be out of pocket.

If you refer to my complaint 21 March 2016 under the heading "what do you think the body should do to put things right", my prediction has the makings of being very accurate (see quoted paragraph).
  • "The seriousness of the failure to take these measures can not be over stated. Prompt action is required to ensure that the immediate consequences of the error are remedied and also to prevent unwarranted enforcement measures that may otherwise follow. Should the error not be remedied it is likely a constant cycle of recovery action will result, incurring additional costs which will accumulate over time to be sufficient in amount that the council will achieve its clearly vindictive aim of justifying taking action such as bankruptcy or imposing a custodial sentence."
It is not feasible that Rossendales will be successful in recovering any of this from me as the only option available to them is to take control of a vehicle as it is not obligatory to let a bailiff into your home. As I do not currently own a car that option is out. The Council does not have the option of taking monies from my income because I have none whatsoever, only outgoings.

I see the only option available, after the likely failure of Rossendales, will be for the Council to apply to the court for committal and will predictably strengthen its case with the argument that I had escalated the matter to the LGO and had an unsuccessful outcome and so claim that the LGO endorsed the council's actions. This would of course be a distortion because my complaint was well founded, and would if the organisation had investigated, found that the council was at fault and my account had been maladministered. It was also in possession of enough evidence within the content of the complaint to have had legitimate cause to raise concerns via the Council’s legal department regarding fraud.

In anticipation of having to defend myself in court at a potential committal hearing I request that a letter is produced explaining that the reason why the Ombudsman did not investigate my complaint was not because it lacked merit and would unlikely find fault with the council, but because the organisation has only finite resources and so does not extend to investigating every complaint.

Yours sincerely

Mark1960
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Joined: 20 Mar 2013 11:36

#197 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by Mark1960 » 16 May 2016 15:33

outlawipcc wrote:
Pote Snitkin wrote:
Mark1960 wrote:Its a 14 day letter. They are giving you 14 days to set up a repayment plan, otherwise enforcement starts and a £75 compliance fee will kick in.
Looks more like a compliance stage letter to me, before a visit and a £235 fee. However, the letter isn't compliant with TCG2013 reg 7(e).
7. Notice of enforcement must be given in writing, and must contain the following information—

(e) the following information about the debt—

(i) sufficient details of the debt to enable the debtor to identify the debt correctly;

(ii) the amount of the debt including any interest due as at the date of the notice;

(iii) the amount of any enforcement costs incurred up to the date of notice; and

(iv) the possible additional costs of enforcement if the sum outstanding should remain unpaid as at the date mentioned in paragraph (h);


It fails on (iii) & (iv) at least.
Rossendales letter states the following:
If your offer is unacceptable we will visit to levy distress, and you will have to pay extra fees as shown on the enclosed schedule.

ROSSENDALES LTD
There was no schedule enclosed, only an income/expenditure questionnaire and information on different ways to pay. I guess if that was argued, both Rossendales and the Council would just say prove it.
As I said, they are just using a template that is more than 2 years out of date. The old 14 day letter required the fees listed in Schedule 5 to be sent with the letter. As the letter is no longer mandatory, it is no longer necessary to enclose a schedule of the fees.

outlawipcc
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#198 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 16 May 2016 19:09

I'll see what happens, but I suppose theoretically I'm £75 out of pocket in respect of the compliance fee.

You never know, with a couple of Councillors copied into my latest correspondence to the Council it might make it more difficult for them to keep a lid on this.

Mark1960
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#199 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by Mark1960 » 16 May 2016 19:15

As it stands, you are not currently £75 out of pocket. You have 14 days to avoid this.

What would be really good would be for you to make an offer to these enforcers to repay the debt over a six month period. Pound to a penny, they will turn you down. Then offer to pay it over 3 months-I'd wager they'd still turn you down. At that point, another complaint could go into NELC as their agents would be refusing realistic offers of repayment in order to guarantee fees. Rossendales have been paid nothing for receiving details of your account and sending that letter. The only reason they have done so is because they want you to fail, so that they can add fees.

outlawipcc
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Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#200 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 16 May 2016 19:56

If I wasn't disputing the debt on the basis that the council had criminally obtained the liability order I would fill in the income/outgoing form just to see how much they would come up with for a payment arrangement, and on what basis they made the decision.

Looking at it briefly my financial situation (monthly) is roughly the following:


TOTAL INCOME – £0.00

TOTAL OUTGOINGS – £700.00

Not much left for Rossendales even if I were to pay them.

outlawipcc
Posts: 329
Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#201 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 18 May 2016 18:10

Yet more bull$h¡t­.

From: Maione, Tony
To: outlawipcc
Cc: Cllr - Jackson, Philip ; Cllr - McGilligan-Fell, Christina ; Cllr - McGilligan-Fell, Christina ; Res - Customer Services ; Marsh, Mary ; Walsh, Rob ; Hanmer, Peter
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2016
Subject: RE: False statement to defraud through council tax liability application


Dear Mr outlawipcc,

Thank you for your email of 13 May 2016 to my colleague Mr Hanmer. I have reviewed the Council’s Whistleblowing (Raising a Concern) Policy (the Policy) in terms of the Council’s response to you on the matters you have raised. The procedure that has been followed in this matter is considered to be in line with the Policy. The policy provides that upon receipt of a potential Whistleblowing matter that it be referred to myself for consideration and discussion with Mr Hanmer, Head of Audit and Assurance and other relevant colleagues. I can confirm that this consideration and discussion duly took place prior to my letter to you of 11 May 2016 and that our Whistleblowing arrangements are subject to regular review.

Opportunities to learn from matters raised by members of the public, such as yourself, are taken and accordingly the Audit team are considering your correspondence. The Audit team will consider issues, if any, that haven’t already been dealt with via the Council’s complaints procedure.

As your correspondence contained serious allegations including perjury, this matter was passed to me which is standard practice. It is right and proper for you to pursue allegations of this nature through the Courts. You will no doubt appreciate that making allegations including perjury which are found to be unsubstantiated and/or not evidenced is itself a serious matter.

Yours sincerely

Tony

Tony Maione, Solicitor
Assistant Director Law and Monitoring Officer
North East Lincolnshire Council

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#202 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by Pote Snitkin » 18 May 2016 20:10

Sounds like an implied threat.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

outlawipcc
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#203 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 18 May 2016 20:40

Pote Snitkin wrote:Sounds like an implied threat.
I agree. The last paragraph is a blend of threat and bullshit, whilst the preceding ones are unadulterated, containing only bullshit.

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Posts: 329
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#204 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 19 May 2016 15:03

The Local Government Ombudsman chooses to remain complicit:
From: outlawipcc
To: A.Hobley@coinweb.lgo.org.uk
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016
Subject: Re: Confidential: Case ID - 15016673

Dear Mr Hobley

I would like to know whether the Ombudsman raised concerns via North East Lincolnshire Council’s legal department regarding fraud. As I stated in my 16 May email the Ombudsman was in possession of enough evidence within the content of the complaint to have had legitimate cause to.

Yours sincerely

From: A.Hobley@coinweb.lgo.org.uk
To: outlawipcc
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016
Subject: Confidential: Case ID - 15020295

19 May 2016

Our ref: 15 020 295
(Please quote our reference when contacting us)

Dear Mr outlawipcc,

You have the decision statement on your case. As we did not investigate we have not..told the Council's legal Department about any alleged fraud.

As a publicly funded body we cannot justify continuing to correspondence about complaints we have decided. You have been told how to ask for a review of the decision on your case. If you do that we will respond to you. We will also reply to any legal action or DPA/FOI requests. Other than that any further correspondence from you about this complaint will be read, but not acknowledged or replied to.

Yours sincerely

Andrew Hobley
Assessment Team Leader
0330 403 4725
LOCAL GOVERNMENT OMBUDSMAN

outlawipcc
Posts: 329
Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#205 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 22 May 2016 18:36

From: [outlawipcc]
To: Maione, Tony
Cc: [various]
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016
Subject: Re: False statement to defraud through council tax liability application

Dear Mr Maione

Further to your 18 May email I am trying to establish the council's position in relation to the chart setting out how concerns can be raised (Appendix two, whistleblowing policy). I would therefore like it confirming whether or not your correspondence is effectively the final decision after checks have been made to determine 'if concern falls within the Whistleblowing policy'.

My interpretation of your comments is that you have made the final decision and that decision is no, the consequences being that the matter will be kept from the scrutiny of the police, Local Government Ombudsman and/or the external auditor for example. Rather, the matter will be confined within the council thus enabling a cover-up by one of its bogus internal procedures allowing the department unhindered to pursue the kind of criminal activity that I have been a victim of.

If how I have described above is the correct interpretation, I am in no doubt that the statutory function, which you as Monitoring Officer (a public office holder) have a duty to carry out, is not being fulfilled in the way defined in law.

The role entails specifically ensuring that the Council, its Officers, etc., maintain the highest standards of conduct and reporting on matters that are, or are likely to be, illegal or amount to maladministration.

Unsubstantiated allegations

I assume by emphasising the seriousness of the matter if my allegations were found to be unsubstantiated etc., you are implying a threat. If you have considered the evidence, which I assume you have, you will know that the scenario suggested makes no sense as my evidence supports the allegations beyond all doubt.

Rather than implying that my allegation may be false or malicious the focus ought to be on the council's failure to appoint an officer who is prepared to perform the statutory duties which are conferred on a monitoring officer by virtue of Part III of the Local Government Act 2000.

Failure of Complaints officers to refer matters concerning fraud

There is a serious failure of complaints officers adhering to the Whistleblowing policy in not referring matters immediately concerning fraud to the Audit, Risk, Insurance and Corporate Fraud team. This has been evident in the present case which because of the failure has led to an inordinate amount of injustice. For example, intervention would have rendered the completion of the Corporate Feedback procedure unnecessary, plus saved unnecessarily engaging in lengthy representations to the Local Government Ombudsman.

This matter should have been referred to the Corporate Fraud team in November 2015 further to my correspondence on the 10th alleging that the council fraudulently obtained a liability order from the court in order to enforce a sum which, if it had conducted its affairs lawfully would not be entitled. The same can be said for an earlier submission dated 15 March 2014 concerning a related issue that also led to an inordinate amount of injustice.

In both cases the Chief Executive endorsed the investigating officer's reports, declaring that he had considered the findings of the investigations to have been correctly and fairly carried out and for such acquiescence he should be held accountable.

The council's position

I would like, as set out at the beginning of this email, the council's position clarifying in this matter, e.g., has the council no intention of taking the matter seriously and internally processing it, or has it, or will it be taking the appropriate steps and referring it to the police?

Yours sincerely

outlawipcc
Posts: 329
Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#206 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 24 May 2016 08:14

HM Courts
& Tribunals
Service


Our ref: GT

20 May 2016

Dear Mr [outlawipcc],

I write in response to your latest two emails to me, the first sent on 9 May 2016 and the second on 16 May 2016.

With regard to your first email I have already informed you that the court is not prepared to reopen your criminal case. That is because you deliberately chose not to attend your trial.

Frankly I can only describe your comments in respect of dedicated and hard working professionals within Her Majesty’s Courts’ Service as outrageous.

With regard to your second email, that relates simply to an issue of non payment of council tax. Should that matter result ultimately in a court hearing you will be given the opportunity to attend court for an inquiry into your financial circumstances. At such a hearing the court will deal with that issue and that issue alone.

I am unable to help you any further.

Yours sincerely,

Graeme Townell
Legal Team Manager
Grimsby Magistrates’ Court

outlawipcc
Posts: 329
Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#207 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 26 May 2016 15:27

In for a penny, in for a pound....

Crime report to Humberside Police

26 May 2016

North East Lincolnshire Council has appointed Rossendale’s bailiffs to enforce alleged outstanding Council Tax. I have become aware about this after receiving a letter dated 11 May 2016 from the enforcement firm.

There is no money owed. The council engineered the debt and did so criminally by lying to the court. This matter is known to Humberside police and although the force has decided against investigating the matter it may now that there are further consequences need to review its decision. Incidentally, evidence which proves the allegations beyond all reasonable doubt has been provided to the force. In assistance I will provide you with the relevant reference which is CO 461/15.

Rossendale’s letter refers to a schedule of fees which had not been enclosed, perhaps due to an oversight or because the generic letter had not been updated and contained information that was once necessary but not now. In any event, I believe those fees are likely to amount to £310, comprising a £75 compliance fee and £235 enforcement charge which when added to the unwarranted summons costs will amount to £430. It is therefore reasonable to assume that at this stage the sum that the council will attempt to defraud me of will be £430.

In reference to CO 461/15, my prediction had the makings of being accurate. See quoted paragraphs of my 30 December 2015 email to Inspector Allan Harvey in this matter:
  • "Action needs taking sooner rather than later to ensure that the immediate consequences of the fraud is remedied. This will not be achieved by having to complete complaint and subsequent appeal procedures which guarantee nothing at the end. The appropriate level of investigation can be evaluated after the immediate risk of the consequences of the crimes have been removed.

    The consequences do not stop at the fraudulently obtained court cost. Unnecessary enforcement measures will follow, incurring additional costs which will accumulate over time to be sufficient in amount that the council will achieve its vindictive aim and be able to take insolvency, bankruptcy or custodial action."
NELC's Revenues & Benefits service has not as you would have expected considered it a close shave to have avoided being the subject of a fraud investigation, but emboldened it to take further liberties with the law and seen it as a green light to continue its vendetta.

As I’m sure the force knows where this is heading, I expect now would be an appropriate time to have this matter investigated.

outlawipcc
Posts: 329
Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#208 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 26 May 2016 16:55

From: Maione, Tony
To: [outlawipcc]
Cc: [various]
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016
Subject: RE: False statement to defraud through council tax liability application

Dear Mr [outlawipcc],

Thank you for your email below.

I can confirm that the Council’s Internal Audit team, led by Mr Hanmer, will be looking into the matters you have raised as laid out in earlier correspondence.

If you believe that the Courts, the police, the Local Government Ombudsman, District Audit or any combination of those, and/or any other external scrutiny should be brought to bear it is of course within your right to pursue that.

Kind regards

Tony

Tony Maione, Solicitor
Chief Legal Officer and Monitoring Officer
North East Lincolnshire Council

outlawipcc
Posts: 329
Joined: 06 Apr 2013 17:31

#209 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by outlawipcc » 28 May 2016 16:12

Is this threat more serious than the last one?


Notice of enforcement – Rossendales
This notice must be given by the enforcement agent or the enforcement agent's office.______

Please read this notice - it is important

Date notice issued |25th May 2016|

About this notice You have been sent this notice of enforcement because you have not paid money that you owe.
  • Who you owe money to | North East Lincolnshire Council |

    The amount you owe them | £ 211.00 |

    Their ref./account no. | 550xxxxxxx |
    (if applicable)
Enforcement details Details of the court judgement or order or enforcement power by virtue of which the debt is enforceable

A Liability Order has been granted against you on the 30/10/2015 for non payment of Council
Tax and costs at XY Xxxx Yyyy, Grimsby, DNXY XXY:

Sum outstanding
  • Debt | £ 211.00 |

    Interest | £0.00 |

    Compliance stage fee | £75.00 |

    TOTAL sum
    outstanding | £286.00
    |
    (as at the date of this notice)
When to make
payment

You must pay, or agree a payment arrangement with the enforcement agent, by:
  • Date | 18th June 2016 |
    Time | 23:59 |
If you do not pay
  • If you do not pay or agree a payment arrangement by the date above, an enforcement agent will visit you and may seize your belongings - this is called 'taking control'. These belongings may then be sold to pay the money you owe. These actions will increase the costs of enforcement and these costs will be added to the amount already owed.
Possible
additional fees
and expenses of
enforcement

  • If the sum outstanding remains unpaid or you have not agreed a payment arrangement by the date and time above you may be charged the following (enforcement agent to detail further possible fees and expenses)
Fee schedule.....

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#210 Re: Summonsed for Council Tax account being in credit

Post by jasonDWB » 28 May 2016 16:48

Is this in dispute? If not then pay it at 23.58 on 18th June 2016 using online banking. Transfer is immediate. See what happens.
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