urgent help!

Quash the Liability Order. Suspend Enforcement. Disputing Liabilities. Claim Damages for Misuse of Enforcement Power.
GDB
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#36 Re: urgent help!

Post by GDB » 11 Mar 2017 16:03

Please do not take offence at this, it obvious you are in a financial pickle. If your hubby has a lot of other debts maybe it might be worth looking at a Debt Relief Order or seeking advice on one.

CT can be included DRO, Once a DRO is approved creditors can not contact or chase you,

After 12 months you will have fresh start, whilst I respect this may appear as drastic action you will not be trying to keep your heads above water and worrying all the time.

Sadly debt can easily spiral out of control, you made an offer of 250 a month - that will take 22 months to clear the £5600 owed. Whilst paying that you could be opening a can of worms and get into debt in other area's.

Apologies again if I have caused offence by writing this post, I do know some people who have gone down this route and it has given them peace of mind etc.

Dear Mods - I know this is a Bailiff Forum, i'm just trying to help!

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#37 Re: urgent help!

Post by Schedule 12 » 11 Mar 2017 18:35

That's OK. We are not licensed or regulated to give forum-based debt advice.

If a member gives another member debt advice, then it's merely a discussion between members.

We receive client referrals from debt advice companies and other discussion forums about bailiff regulations because it's our specialty.
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#38 Re: urgent help!

Post by crystal » 11 Mar 2017 19:55

Sorry being a bit of pain, is it possible that the council ask the police to look out for us on the 26th at the airport due to him being told that he has to appear the court on 27th?

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#39 Re: urgent help!

Post by Amy » 11 Mar 2017 20:06

Err no. I think the police have far better things to be getting on with, don't you.

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#40 Re: urgent help!

Post by Michelle » 11 Mar 2017 20:17

jasonDWB wrote:
11 Mar 2017 18:35
That's OK. We are not licensed or regulated to give forum-based debt advice.
Neither are any of the other forums: MSE, CAG, LB, AAD, etc.
Listen very carefully, I shall post this only once:
Anything posted by me is from my own knowledge and experience, it is not legal advice or the official views of this forum.

Knowledge is Power.

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#41 Re: urgent help!

Post by Michelle » 11 Mar 2017 20:30

GDB wrote:
11 Mar 2017 16:03
Please do not take offence at this, it obvious you are in a financial pickle. If your hubby has a lot of other debts maybe it might be worth looking at a Debt Relief Order or seeking advice on one.

CT can be included DRO, Once a DRO is approved creditors can not contact or chase you
No offence taken but a DRO cannot be recommended without knowing people's full circumstances. The criteria is rather stringent regarding assets, disposable income and total amount of debt. Not suitable for homeowners. There are a lot of things to take into account.
GDB wrote:
11 Mar 2017 16:03
After 12 months you will have fresh start, whilst I respect this may appear as drastic action you will not be trying to keep your heads above water and worrying all the time.

Sadly debt can easily spiral out of control, you made an offer of 250 a month - that will take 22 months to clear the £5600 owed. Whilst paying that you could be opening a can of worms and get into debt in other area's.
Council tax arrears is a priority debt, it is possible to pay nominal amounts towards non-priority debts if required.
GDB wrote:
11 Mar 2017 16:03
Apologies again if I have caused offence by writing this post, I do know some people who have gone down this route and it has given them peace of mind etc.

Dear Mods - I know this is a Bailiff Forum, i'm just trying to help!
Your good intentions are appreciated, however, one has to look at the whole picture and ask a lot of questions before suggesting a personal insolvency solution.
Listen very carefully, I shall post this only once:
Anything posted by me is from my own knowledge and experience, it is not legal advice or the official views of this forum.

Knowledge is Power.

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#42 Re: urgent help!

Post by Schedule 12 » 11 Mar 2017 21:18

Michelle wrote:
11 Mar 2017 20:17
Neither are any of the other forums: MSE, CAG, LB, AAD, etc.
MSE is regulated. We reciprocate client referrals. There is nothing stopping the others becoming regulated.
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#43 Re: urgent help!

Post by crystal » 12 Mar 2017 18:33

jasonDWB wrote:
11 Mar 2017 14:22
crystal wrote:
11 Mar 2017 13:32


If you do not provide an up to date address for yourself and current contact telephone numbers then the Warrant Officers will need to continue to use the details they currently hold .


any advise please?
No further action.
Hi Jason

When you say No Further Action do you mean that as I sent the council an email outlining a genuine offer of payment at the end of Feb outlining a payment plan to clear the debt that I do not need to attend any hearing? The first payment from me was was paid as promised in my email. Am I right in thinking that because the council sent me the reference number for me to start making payments into my account that they had accepted my offer of payment maybe through acquiescence and that's it? No need for me to attend a hearing?

Many thanks

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#44 Re: urgent help!

Post by crystal » 12 Mar 2017 18:52

She even say's 'If you wish to surrender.....' well actually I don't wish to surrender to their so called warrant officers or anyone else so now what?

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#45 Re: urgent help!

Post by Schedule 12 » 12 Mar 2017 19:51

No need to attend a hearing. The court must issue a summons.
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GDB
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#46 Re: urgent help!

Post by GDB » 12 Mar 2017 20:06

Hi Michelle

I did say it may be worth seeking advice regarding a DRO, of course we do not know the circumstances of the OP affairs.

I simply gave an avenue for the OP to explore and see if it might be of help to them.

Its difficult when people are at their wits end, they cannot always see things clearly, people like you etc always do your best for people on this forum.

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#47 Re: urgent help!

Post by Schedule 12 » 12 Mar 2017 20:38

We don't have a resident qualified debt counsellor on this board. We are open for suggestions
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#48 Re: urgent help!

Post by Estelle2k17 » 14 Mar 2017 22:01

I need some advice urgently!
I received a letter this morning off JACOBS BAILIFFS this stated that removal is scheduled tomorrow between 6-9 for removal of goods when I contacted mr K O NEILL the enforcement officer In charge direct he said to me that it's been through the court and they have permission to gain entry even though I've never let them in the property I was wondering if they have the power to do this or if it's just a threat for me 2 let them in.

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#49 Re: urgent help!

Post by Pote Snitkin » 14 Mar 2017 23:40

If it's for council tax then there's no forced entry, although anything of value outside, ie a car, will be targeted.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#50 Re: urgent help!

Post by crystal » 15 Mar 2017 01:22

Hi Jason

To continue our saga. I'm the Chinese girl, my husband, daughter and me are supposed to be flying out on 26th, I told them what you said that My husband didn't need to attend court as he had started paying as promised in his offer and this was their reply;

Good Morning

You have been provided with a date to attend court and surrender to the live warrant of arrest in place for you.

If you fail to attend court on 27th March 2017 at 09.45 then the Warrant Officers will continue with their duty to execute the warrant.

You are currently subject to a suspended prison sentence, pending you making payments as set by the Magistrates on 16th September 2013, explanation as to why you have not made these payments would need to be made to the Magistrates and they will decided whether or not to invoke that sentence.

My email on Kind RegardsFebruary 2017 advised you that any payments made would reduce the balance outstanding, however as you not made payment in accordance with the arrangement set by the court the warrant will remain live. The reference number was provided to ensure that any payments you made would reflect on your account, and ensure that when presenting the Local Authority case to the Magistrates correct details of your payments are noted.

I re-iterate that if you fail to surrender to the warrant on 27th March 2017 the Warrant Officers will continue with their duty. When you attend court you are entitled to duty solicitor and they can provide you advice on the day regarding your circumstances.

Please advise Jason. Many, many thanks you have been a tremendous help to a poor family.

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#51 Re: urgent help!

Post by Tony72 » 15 Mar 2017 07:28

I would really suggest you seek some proper legal advice. You may be eligible for legal aid if you are on a low income.

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#52 Re: urgent help!

Post by Pote Snitkin » 15 Mar 2017 08:57

A magistrate cannot suspend a sentence for more than 2 years. Legal advice must be sought.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#53 Re: urgent help!

Post by Schedule 12 » 15 Mar 2017 09:51

crystal wrote:
15 Mar 2017 01:22


You have been provided with a date to attend court and surrender to the live warrant of arrest in place for you.
This could be a "no bail" warrant.

It's prescribed under section 117 of the Magistrates Courts Act 1980. It is only a warrant to endorse bail. It's used by bailiff companies in the enforcement of court fines.

I have never seen it used in council tax.

Can you email me a copy of the document jason (at) dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk



If you fail to attend court on 27th March 2017 at 09.45 then the Warrant Officers will continue with their duty to execute the warrant.
Which entails what?




You are currently subject to a suspended prison sentence, pending you making payments as set by the Magistrates on 16th September 2013,
As a custodial sentence is threatened. Take the document to court on the date and approach the Duty Solicitor. You will find him in the advocates room. He may be in one of the meeting rooms with another client. Ask the court usher to see him.




explanation as to why you have not made these payments would need to be made to the Magistrates and they will decided whether or not to invoke that sentence.
Magistrates don't like sending people to prison for non-payment of court fines. Too expensive for the taxpayer.




My email on Kind RegardsFebruary 2017 advised you that any payments made would reduce the balance outstanding, however as you not made payment in accordance with the arrangement set by the court the warrant will remain live. The reference number was provided to ensure that any payments you made would reflect on your account, and ensure that when presenting the Local Authority case to the Magistrates correct details of your payments are noted.

I re-iterate that if you fail to surrender to the warrant on 27th March 2017 the Warrant Officers will continue with their duty. When you attend court you are entitled to duty solicitor and they can provide you advice on the day regarding your circumstances.

Please advise Jason. Many, many thanks you have been a tremendous help to a poor family.

You can plead hardship.

If this is council tax, not a court fine, ask the magistrate to quash the liability order under a section 13 discretionary write-off. Section 13(a) of the Local Government Finance Act 1992

If this a court fine, ask the magistrate to remit the fine under Section 85 of the Magistrates' Court Act 1980 because you have had a change of circumstances.

Have the duty solicitor to this for you. Show him this forum post.
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Estelle2k17
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#54 Re: urgent help!

Post by Estelle2k17 » 15 Mar 2017 10:30

I've received a letter of the bailiffs saying if they refer this outstanding council tax of 868.68 back to my local council they will have no option but to recommend to the council that they consider the following action against me
- committal proceedings
- insolvency
-charging order on property
What does the Following causes of action mean??

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#55 Re: urgent help!

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 10:34

When can a suspended sentence be imposed?

On conviction of an offence punishable by a term of imprisonment, the court may impose a prison sentence where the so-called ‘custody threshold test’ has been passed. Where the court imposes a prison sentence of between 14 days and two years (or 6 months in the Magistrates’ Court), it can suspend the sentence for up to two years. Where the court imposes consecutive sentences for two or more offences, the power to suspend can only be exercised if the aggregate of the terms does not exceed two years (6 months in the Magistrates’ Court).

Once the court has decided a prison sentence is appropriate, it must then consider whether it should and can suspend it. If so, it can suspend the sentence (or aggregate of sentences) for between six months and two years. This is known as the operational period.

PLEASE NOTE:

If you speak to the Council Tax department who deal with CT debt, they are often run by outside companies (not the council) they will tell you all sorts of porkies.

A warrant for arrest has to be issued by a Magistrate or a Judge (Police have power of arrest, that's a different issue)

A suspended sentence in 2013 would expire at the the very latest 1st Jan 2016 (if 2 years)

Scenario: -

If a person is due to appear in Court on the 27th day of the month, but decides to go on holidays on the 26th day of the month.

That person misses the hearing, the Magistrate has the option of making a decision in your absence or issuing a warrant for arrest (this is usually in the more extreme circumstances or failing to answer bail)

Can I respectfully ask, are you being fully open with us? NO ONE is going to judge you - we are here to help, some people who help here have had personal experience of bailiffs in one form or another.

My opinion on this is they are putting the thumb screws on and exerting full pressure in order to get you to pay.

I do not know your full circumstances, but maybe you need to speak with some one like step change regarding your finances

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#56 Re: urgent help!

Post by Schedule 12 » 15 Mar 2017 10:35

It means those are the steps a council can take if the council does not receive payment.

The bailiff company cannot bring any of them. They only have a power to take control of goods to pay the debt. Bailiffs are not solicitors, and cannot apply for a committal proceeding, insolvency or a charging order.
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#57 Re: urgent help!

Post by Schedule 12 » 15 Mar 2017 10:36

Estelle2k17 wrote:
15 Mar 2017 10:30
I've received a letter of the bailiffs saying if they refer this outstanding council tax of 868.68 back to my local council they will have no option but to recommend to the council that they consider the following action against me
- committal proceedings
- insolvency
-charging order on property
What does the Following causes of action mean??
It means those are the steps a council can take if the council does not receive payment.


A bailiff company cannot bring any of these steps.

They only have a power to take control of goods to pay the debt. Bailiffs are not solicitors. They cannot apply for a committal proceeding, practice insolvency or apply for a charging order. They do not have locus standi
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#58 Re: urgent help!

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 10:45

Estelle2k17 wrote:
15 Mar 2017 10:30
I've received a letter of the bailiffs saying if they refer this outstanding council tax of 868.68 back to my local council they will have no option but to recommend to the council that they consider the following action against me
- committal proceedings
- insolvency
-charging order on property
What does the Following causes of action mean??
Committal - sending you to prison - very extreme and in severe cases

Insolvency - making you bankrupt (will cost them 700 odd pounds to do)

Charging order - if your own your own property - money will be taken off when you sell it to pay the Council tax.

Please note: - They use all sorts of tactics to put the fear of God into people - all designed to get you to pay so they can get the commission and /or fees.

They take great delight in pretending to have exhaustive powers - when in fact they have about as much power as a flat battery or Homer Simpson has on Global affairs!.

To be honest by referring it back to the Council they are saying you are not worth their time or effort (sorry don't mean to be rude)

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#59 Re: urgent help!

Post by Estelle2k17 » 15 Mar 2017 10:48

Thanks for response jason

Committal proceedings is that to be jailed? Or to be took to court and if it's took to court will they impose a prison sentance or take decisions from my benefits? Also when this gets refered back to council will I receive a letter from them with the next steps of action?

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#60 Re: urgent help!

Post by Pote Snitkin » 15 Mar 2017 11:09

They cannot make you insolvent as the minimum threshold is £5000

They cannot make a charging order as the minimum threshold is £1000

Committal is reserved to those who absolutely refuse to pay
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#61 Re: urgent help!

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 11:20

Committal - is prison.

Please note - that it is an exceptional thing for the Magistrates to do and in extreme cases.

You should have the facility to pay CT online, try and make nominal payments of £5.00 a week to show good faith (pay Council not Bailiffs)

If you go to Court making payments will show the Magistrate you are trying at least.

You also now have the option of dealing with the Council direct and try to sort out a payment plan. The Council can huff and puff, if they do take you to Court then just explain to the Magistrate your financial position etc. Prepare a financial statement of your money in and out.

In my experience contact the Council in writing, take it into the offices and get a receipt if you can. This way you have a paper trail.

Please try not to worry.

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#62 Re: urgent help!

Post by Estelle2k17 » 15 Mar 2017 11:31

Ok tysm for your help I'm willing to pay £5.00 pw just wasn't sure with it been passed onto the bailiffs if they would accept a payment plan.

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#63 Re: urgent help!

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 11:41

Estelle2k17 wrote:
15 Mar 2017 11:31
Ok tysm for your help I'm willing to pay £5.00 pw just wasn't sure with it been passed onto the bailiffs if they would accept a payment plan.
Just pay the Council direct for the time being.

The letter stated it had been returned, get a letter in to the Council with a photocopy of the bailiff letter offering a payment plan (with Council not bailiff)

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#64 Re: urgent help!

Post by crystal » 15 Mar 2017 17:05

I am telling the truth, what would be the point in not telling the truth? Until recently I did not have the money. For most of last year the council was stealing £500 a month from my wife's wages which left us with nothing to feed ourselves with, they didn't care about that. My wife is still paying in excess of £300 a month to them and now they want me to pay this 5,500. (£2000 of which is nothing but costs). By the time they have finished they will have taken close to 15 grand from us for council tax debts that amount to around £10,000. I am now working and can pay £250 a month to clear it up and get them off my back but they seem to want to put me in prison (to teach me a lesson, I guess the lesson is that I am under the thumb of Psychopaths and MUST do as they say failing which they will put me in prison whether Even if my circumstances have changed and I am now able to pay.

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#65 Re: urgent help!

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 17:19

crystal wrote:
15 Mar 2017 17:05
I am telling the truth, what would be the point in not telling the truth? Until recently I did not have the money. For most of last year the council was stealing £500 a month from my wife's wages which left us with nothing to feed ourselves with, they didn't care about that. My wife is still paying in excess of £300 a month to them and now they want me to pay this 5,500. (£2000 of which is nothing but costs). By the time they have finished they will have taken close to 15 grand from us for council tax debts that amount to around £10,000. I am now working and can pay £250 a month to clear it up and get them off my back but they seem to want to put me in prison (to teach me a lesson, I guess the lesson is that I am under the thumb of Psychopaths and MUST do as they say failing which they will put me in prison whether Even if my circumstances have changed and I am now able to pay.
Sorry if you were offended, it was not my intention or anyone else's on this forum intention.

We are all trying to help you, I realise its embarrassing etc for anyone, but we are here to help not judge.

Prison is a very last stance, Magistrates do not do it lightly! You are trying to sort thing out that will put you in a good footing.

I still respectfully suggest you get some proper financial help from a trained debt adviser,

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#66 Re: urgent help!

Post by crystal » 15 Mar 2017 17:26

I have spoken to debt advisors and feel that they told the council we were going on 26th which is why the paychopaths wanted us to turn up in court on 27th

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#67 Re: urgent help!

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 17:30

Which debt advice company did you speak with?

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#68 Re: urgent help!

Post by crystal » 17 Mar 2017 00:14

People need to be very careful when talking to debt advisors. They will take everything you say back to the council, they are not independent.

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#69 Re: urgent help!

Post by crystal » 17 Mar 2017 00:15

GDB wrote:
15 Mar 2017 17:30
Which debt advice company did you speak with?
I cannot remember who they were, they called me.

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#70 Re: urgent help!

Post by Pote Snitkin » 17 Mar 2017 07:40

How did they get your number? Can you remember anything about them?
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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