Bailiff fees when I've been paying the council

Quash the Liability Order. Suspend Enforcement. Disputing Liabilities. Claim Damages for Misuse of Enforcement Power.
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mermaid1
Posts: 1
Joined: 03 Apr 2017 20:45

#1 Bailiff fees when I've been paying the council

Post by mermaid1 » 03 Apr 2017 21:15

Hi,
Can anyone help me with this as it is causing me a great deal of stress and frustration.

I had my own business in the past but sadly it folded. I had one outstanding business rates arrears and was paying but stopped as my business wasn't doing that well. Then when my shopped closed obviously they were trying to get hold of me, sending letters to the shop but as I wasn't there I didn't get them. Finally they caught up with me at my home address. When the court letter arrived I called Rossendales and they demanded £300.00 upfront before they would enter into a payment plan with me, which I couldn't afford. I did a quick scan on this forum and found that I should pay the council direct. I started doing this before it actually went to court. I contacted the council offering this payment and said I would like to deal with them direct and not the bailiffs. but I paid them anyway and have been paying them since October 2016. I also started paying for the other outstanding bill at the same time before this went to court also. I have been making payments every week without fail since 2016. When I rang up the council and also emailed them to tell me what I owe they refused and told me to talk to Rossendales.

On 24th march one of their goons left a letter in my door with a final demand for £1.206 for NON PAYMENT I called him up to tell him this was wrong as according to my records I only owe £444.00 in total. He was very abrupt and reckoned that he was going to come around my house the next day Saturday at 6am to demand payment. After I told him that I would call the police if he came around demanding money that I know I didn't owe. He didn't arrive.

I wrote a letter of complaint and sent admin all the payments via bank statements of all the payments that I had made to date. Today I get a letter
from Rossendales stating that I now owe £298.26 on the debt that according to my payment records should be £144.26. and £855.79 which according to my records should be £300.00. This is due to the £235.00 enforcement fee that was charged for apparently having to enforce a payment that i have been paying since October. These charges were never mentioned before today. It seems like when I complain, more charges get levied.

They said I had to pay this due to the fact that even though I have been paying the council, they, the council, apparently did not agree to a payment plan, even though they are taking my money every week, and because I have not been paying them (Rossendales)???

I really don't understand this non logic. They are trying to say that because i didn't pay Rossendales themselves but paid the council direct, I now have to pay Rossendales this enforcer charge. Oh, they also said, even though I'm paying the council direct, the next charge will be £110.00. So does that mean that after all these charges are set, that they can still come and take my goods as i am not paying them direct?? It just does not make any sense.

Im now at my wits end and I'm feeling the more I pay, the more I owe.

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jasonDWB
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Joined: 30 Jul 2012 21:23
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#2 Re: Bailiff fees when I've been paying the council

Post by jasonDWB » 04 Apr 2017 10:49

mermaid1 wrote:
03 Apr 2017 21:15
Hi,
Can anyone help me with this as it is causing me a great deal of stress and frustration.

I had my own business in the past but sadly it folded. I had one outstanding business rates arrears and was paying but stopped as my business wasn't doing that well. Then when my shopped closed obviously they were trying to get hold of me, sending letters to the shop but as I wasn't there I didn't get them. Finally they caught up with me at my home address. When the court letter arrived I called Rossendales and they demanded £300.00 upfront before they would enter into a payment plan with me, which I couldn't afford. I did a quick scan on this forum and found that I should pay the council direct. I started doing this before it actually went to court. I contacted the council offering this payment and said I would like to deal with them direct and not the bailiffs. but I paid them anyway and have been paying them since October 2016. I also started paying for the other outstanding bill at the same time before this went to court also. I have been making payments every week without fail since 2016. When I rang up the council and also emailed them to tell me what I owe they refused and told me to talk to Rossendales.

On 24th march one of their goons left a letter in my door with a final demand for £1.206 for NON PAYMENT
For as long as Rossendales are in charge, you will probably never be out of their debt.

You need to take an action to kill the enforcement power.


I called him up to tell him this was wrong as according to my records I only owe £444.00 in total.

Pay that sum to the council. It can be photographed cheque and recorded envelope. That means you have tendered the clkeared funds to the creditor and that stops (legally speaking) the enforcement power:


Paragraph 6(3) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 states:
  • (3)The property in all goods ceases to be bound when any of these happens—

    • (a)the amount outstanding is paid, out of the proceeds of sale or otherwise;

      (b)the instrument under which the power is exercisable ceases to have effect;

      (c)the power ceases to be exercisable for any other reason.


Note the words "amount outstanding". You need to be sure the bailiff has NOT taken control of goods. From your enquiry, he hasn't


The amount outstanding is defined in the Schedule and consists of two components, Paragraph 59(3) of Schedule 12 states:
  • (3)The amount outstanding is the sum of these—

    • (a)the amount of the debt which remains unpaid (or an amount that the creditor agrees to accept in full satisfaction of the debt);

      (b)any amounts recoverable out of proceeds in accordance with regulations under paragraph 62 (costs).


The first component is the debt which remains unpaid, £444.00

The second component is costs of taking and selling your goods. The bailiff has not taken control of any, so this component is £0.




He was very abrupt and reckoned that he was going to come around my house the next day Saturday at 6am to demand payment. After I told him that I would call the police if he came around demanding money that I know I didn't owe. He didn't arrive.

I wrote a letter of complaint and sent admin all the payments via bank statements of all the payments that I had made to date. Today I get a letter
from Rossendales stating that I now owe £298.26 on the debt that according to my payment records should be £144.26. and £855.79 which according to my records should be £300.00. This is due to the £235.00 enforcement fee that was charged for apparently having to enforce a payment that i have been paying since October. These charges were never mentioned before today. It seems like when I complain, more charges get levied.


These sums are not costs. They are "fees" and are not enforceable once the enforcement power conferred under the liability order has ceased to have effect.





They said I had to pay this due to the fact that even though I have been paying the council, they, the council, apparently did not agree to a payment plan,
Makes no difference.

The law says the liability is a statutory one. There is no requirement for anyone to agree a payment plan. Once the statutory debt is paid, the case closes insofar as the law is concerned.



even though they are taking my money every week, and because I have not been paying them (Rossendales)???

You have no legal obligation to trade with a bailiff company. Your liability is to discharge the liability.




I really don't understand this non logic. They are trying to say that because i didn't pay Rossendales themselves but paid the council direct, I now have to pay Rossendales this enforcer charge. Oh, they also said, even though I'm paying the council direct, the next charge will be £110.00.
They are just messing you about.


So does that mean that after all these charges are set, that they can still come and take my goods as i am not paying them direct?? It just does not make any sense.

Im now at my wits end and I'm feeling the more I pay, the more I owe.

Just get the liability owed to the council paid, and that will kill the enforcement power.

Its unreasonable for me say the fees £310 are not owed. I can say the enforcement power dies when the amount outstanding has been paid.

There is a trump card. Did you get a Notice of Enforcement? It looks like this: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014 ... edule/made


If you did not get one, then no fees are owed let alone recoverable.

This explains the legal position of you did not get a Notice of Enforcement: http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/TC ... tion6.html

You can find out whether you got one because the enforcement address on the liability order will be wrong. It will have your shop address and the bailiff turned up at your home address. The council can give you the address on the liability order. Record the call using ACR Pro downloadable from the Google Play store (£2.49).
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