Bristow & Sutor playing games

Quash the Liability Order. Suspend Enforcement. Disputing Liabilities. Claim Damages for Misuse of Enforcement Power.
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Michelle1980
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#1 Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Michelle1980 » 26 Apr 2017 13:08

Hi. I owe my local council quite a bit in council tax. I was willing to pay but was unable to agree a reasonable plan with B&S so they got an attachment of earnings for two amounts. That was fine as I wanted it do be sorted, although we were struggling a bit for money each month. In January I received a letter saying I now owed another years tax. I didn't dispute this and called them to make an arrangement because I knew there could only two AoE's. The man I spoke to told me that if I agreed to a set amount per month it'd cover all three amounts owed and that they'd stop the two current AoE's and I would then pay them the agreed amount each month. That was fine and I agreed to do this. They then said they'd stop the AoE'S which they failed to do in time so my employer sent the payments across as they had done previously. I called B&S who said ok theyd start the payment plan the following month. All was good. The next month they had again failed to completely stop the AoE's. So I contacted them again and they again said we'd start the payment plan the next month. At the end of March they still took some money via AoE so I called them. They now said I had defaulted on the agreement and want £600 NOW or a bailiff would be out to collect the remaining £2400 owed. I don't have £600. I explained everything that had gone wrong with them and their failure to stop the AoE's and that I was willing to pay the shortfall from March's payment. They refused insisting that they want £600 today. They would not listen to anything I said. I even pleaded with them but they have it in their tiny brains that I defaulted on the plan and that was that. Not their problem. They said if I don't pay I will go to jail. I have bipolar. I have told B&S the council this as I was advised by a debt charity as I may be a vulnerable household. We also have a child with mental health issues.




Thanks in advance for any advice. More info can be added if required.
Run the Council tax enforcement compliance check.

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Pote Snitkin
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#2 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Pote Snitkin » 26 Apr 2017 13:57

First thing you need to do is find out who has actually arranged the AOE's - B&S or the council. Get this info from the council, not B&S, or even ask your employer's payroll dept who requested the AOE.

The reason is that only one enforcement power can be applied at any one time, so it's either bailiff enforcement or AOE - it can't be both. B&S can certainly administer an AOE but they would not be allowed to add fees. You need to be sure about what you are paying for.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

Michelle1980
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#3 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Michelle1980 » 26 Apr 2017 19:24

Hi Pote Snitkin. Thanks for your reply. I'll contact payroll tomorrow.

Michelle1980
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#4 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Michelle1980 » 30 Apr 2017 15:56

Hi. Just to be clear, we already had two Attachment of Earnings in place for the first two debts owed. We were then sent the letter for this years council tax so called B&S to see what we could do. They offered us a new payment plan that meant the two previous AoEs would be cancelled by them and a new total would be payable per month that would cover all three debts. They said they would cancel the AoEs but for the first month they didn't because it was too late for my payroll to cancel. B&S then said the AoEs would be cancelled in time for the next payday the following month. Only one was cancelled so we made up the difference to make sure the full agreed amount was paid. They told us the both AoEs would be cancelled in time for the third month. Again some money was taken from my pay. This time we didn't make up the shortfall and decided to call. It was just £50. We called them and they said we had defaulted on the agreement and that they now wanted £600 immediately or they'd send a bailiff out to take control of goods. We were more than willing to pay the £50 to resume the agreed plan that THEY offered us but they were having none of it and now we are where we are now. The are unwilling to accept any offers we made so we decided to get help and that is when we contact CTA. They managed to put B&S off for 28 days but informed us that any offer of less than £250 would likely be refused by the council.

We feel B&S have played us. The AoEs were not in their best interest so they've made it difficult for us so they can ultimately add charges. Maybe I'm being paranoid.

Michelle1980
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#5 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Michelle1980 » 30 Apr 2017 16:03

Please ignore my previous post. It was a draught copy posted in error that contains inaccuracy's. Thanks.


Hi. Just to be clear, we already had two Attachment of Earnings in place for the first two debts owed. We were then sent the letter for this years council tax so called B&S to see what we could do. BIG MISTAKE! They offered us a new payment plan that meant the two previous AoEs would be cancelled by them and a new total would be payable per month that would cover all three debts. They said they would cancel the AoEs but for the first month they didn't because it was too late for my payroll to cancel so they said the agreement would start then next month and they said the AoEs would be cancelled in time for the next payday the following month. Only one was cancelled and after calling them we were told that they'd just recalculate the next month's total. They told us the both AoEs would be cancelled in time for the third month. Again some money was taken from my pay but not all. We called them and they said we had defaulted on the agreement and that they now wanted £600 immediately or they'd send a bailiff out to take control of goods. Despite them not keeping to their end of the deal we said that we were more than willing to resume the agreed plan that THEY offered us but they were having none of it and now we are where we are now. The are unwilling to accept any offers we made so we decided to get help and that is when we contact CTA. They managed to put B&S off for 28 days but informed us that any offer of less than £250 would likely be refused by the council. The frustrating part is that if we hadn't agreed to their offer back in January and carried on with the AoEs we would have cleared the first two debts by now. We'd be paying this year's council tax and would be free of arrears. We feel B&S have played us. The AoEs were not in their best interest so they made us an offer to cover all three debts and then made it difficult for us so they can say we defaulted so they can add charges. Maybe I'm being paranoid??

Sorry for any confusion my poor explanations may cause. I have no idea what I am doing. Please ask if you need anything clarifying. I'll do my best to do so

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#6 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Pote Snitkin » 30 Apr 2017 18:18

Did you establish who actually set up the AOEs?

The only way to sort this out is to go back to the council and tell them what B&S are doing - the council remain liable for everything the bailiff's do. Don't be fobbed off with "it's with the bailiff's, nothing we can do" - the debt is to the council and their guidance instructs them to be prepared to deal with the debtor at all times.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

Michelle1980
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Joined: 26 Apr 2017 12:50

#7 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Michelle1980 » 01 May 2017 17:52

A letter from Bristow & Sutor said that they themselves would be applying for an attachment of earnings. I did call the council to find out this information but the person I needed to speak to was "not at his desk" and was promised a call back but heard nothing. I'll call again tomorrow. If I have no joy I'll go there in person. Reading Council have relocated to a much smaller building. They, so I am told, do "desk rotation" so catching the right person that can help me isn't easy. They've always been a bit of a joke but more so since the move.

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#8 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by jasonDWB » 02 May 2017 14:16

B&S does not have jurisdiction to apply for an A&E. They can only use schedule 12.

In ay case, fees are not recoverable using an A&E. It was tried, but was not successful.
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Michelle1980
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#9 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Michelle1980 » 03 May 2017 17:11

Hi. Thanks for your reply. So it would have been the council that applied for the AoE? Would they have had to contact the council to get the two AoE's stopped when they agreed the payment plan they later backed out of whilst saying I was at fault? If that is the case then I assume somewhere at Reading Borough Council there is a record of a payment offer and our willingness to pay the debts. Recent attempts to talk to someone about this at RBC have been frustrating and unsuccessful.

Thanks

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#10 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by jasonDWB » 03 May 2017 17:22

Michelle1980 wrote:
03 May 2017 17:11
Hi. Thanks for your reply. So it would have been the council that applied for the AoE?
Yes, only the council can apply for it.


Would they have had to contact the council to get the two AoE's stopped
A bailiff company cannot stop an AOE.


when they agreed the payment plan they later backed out of whilst saying I was at fault?

Bailiff companies do this to avail themselves to the £235 enforcement stage fee. They will even lie to court when an action is brought.




If that is the case then I assume somewhere at Reading Borough Council there is a record of a payment offer and our willingness to pay the debts. Recent attempts to talk to someone about this at RBC have been frustrating and unsuccessful.

Thanks
The only guidelines say the bailiff must not make unrealistic demands. Bailiff companies do not follow then because they are only interested in fees.

Contact the council.

The Department for Communities and Local Government has published an official document called the Guidance on Enforcement of Council Tax arrears. See This Document. On page 8 it provides for a local authority to return the account from bailiff administration and allow you to propose a repayment schedule you can afford.



Clause 4.4, if a bailiff is trying to force you to make payments you cannot afford then you can write to the council asking them to comply with the above guidelines and follow clause 4.5 by exercising its discretionary right to return the account to town hall control as a gesture of goodwill to protect you from further punitive action by the bailiff.


Bailiffs must not pressure a debtor to make unrealistic offers, paragraph 24 of the Taking Control of Goods, National Standards 2014.

This template letter will help you get started, it gives all the above regulations and gives the council an opportunity to avail itself to them and proposes a repayment of the arrears at a rate you can afford. Alternatively, you can use this letter courtesy of Mark1960 or this letter
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Michelle1980
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#11 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Michelle1980 » 03 May 2017 21:19

Thank you jasonDWB.

JimUk1
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#12 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by JimUk1 » 04 May 2017 13:12

Hi Michelle

I'm afraid to have to inform you that the anal sheik has returned and he has targeted you.

Yes... it is true. You will see that elsewhere a person calling himself "Ploddertom" has crawled out from lurking in the shadows 3 weeks after you first sought help. you may wish to ask yourself why it took him so long!!!1

Please let me tell you a bit about the anal sheik "Ploddertom"... He actually runs a sweet shop for a living in some remote outpost just below the Scottish border. He is fondly known as "Sweet Shop Clive" or "The Wizzard of Odd" to those less formal friends. He was recently caught out privately contacting people like you and passing details onto an agent of the bailiffs who then passed information onto the bailiffs.... see here, this lady also sought help on the other site.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4397

Ploddertom is not an expert tho.... his only experience of bailiffs came from when he was visited himself by one at his sweet shop and now he preaches to others that "they should of paid when they had the chance" (unlike he did of course)

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#13 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by jasonDWB » 04 May 2017 13:38

Michelle, if ploddertom contacted you by private message on any forum, can you email me a screenshot of the message to me jason (at) dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk

I'll explain more by return email.

Many thanks.
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Michelle1980
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#14 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Michelle1980 » 04 May 2017 18:03

JimUk1 wrote:
04 May 2017 13:12
Hi Michelle

I'm afraid to have to inform you that the anal sheik has returned and he has targeted you.

Yes... it is true. You will see that elsewhere a person calling himself "Ploddertom" has crawled out from lurking in the shadows 3 weeks after you first sought help. you may wish to ask yourself why it took him so long!!!1

Please let me tell you a bit about the anal sheik "Ploddertom"... He actually runs a sweet shop for a living in some remote outpost just below the Scottish border. He is fondly known as "Sweet Shop Clive" or "The Wizzard of Odd" to those less formal friends. He was recently caught out privately contacting people like you and passing details onto an agent of the bailiffs who then passed information onto the bailiffs.... see here, this lady also sought help on the other site.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4397

Ploddertom is not an expert tho.... his only experience of bailiffs came from when he was visited himself by one at his sweet shop and now he preaches to others that "they should of paid when they had the chance" (unlike he did of course)
Ploddertom from the other forum? He seemed genuine enough.

Michelle1980
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Joined: 26 Apr 2017 12:50

#15 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Michelle1980 » 04 May 2017 18:07

jasonDWB wrote:
04 May 2017 13:38
Michelle, if ploddertom contacted you by private message on any forum, can you email me a screenshot of the message to me jason (at) dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk

I'll explain more by return email.

Many thanks.
Hi Jason. I've not had a private message from him. He replied to a question on another forum. That's all. Thanks

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jasonDWB
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#16 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by jasonDWB » 04 May 2017 20:27

That's OK. It's just that he has previously sent private messages touting potential customers for a trader who is unregistered under the Data Protection Act and being prosecuted by the ICO for failing to register.
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JimUk1
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#17 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by JimUk1 » 09 May 2017 09:05

Michelle1980 wrote:
04 May 2017 18:03
JimUk1 wrote:
04 May 2017 13:12
Hi Michelle

I'm afraid to have to inform you that the anal sheik has returned and he has targeted you.

Yes... it is true. You will see that elsewhere a person calling himself "Ploddertom" has crawled out from lurking in the shadows 3 weeks after you first sought help. you may wish to ask yourself why it took him so long!!!1

Please let me tell you a bit about the anal sheik "Ploddertom"... He actually runs a sweet shop for a living in some remote outpost just below the Scottish border. He is fondly known as "Sweet Shop Clive" or "The Wizzard of Odd" to those less formal friends. He was recently caught out privately contacting people like you and passing details onto an agent of the bailiffs who then passed information onto the bailiffs.... see here, this lady also sought help on the other site.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4397

Ploddertom is not an expert tho.... his only experience of bailiffs came from when he was visited himself by one at his sweet shop and now he preaches to others that "they should of paid when they had the chance" (unlike he did of course)
Ploddertom from the other forum? He seemed genuine enough.
Well all I can say is for you to read the link I provided.

Some other wazzock has decided in his infinite wisdom I am a FMOTL This is what he said:
I have been watching him on Quatloos

In this case the genius thought he would start posting on quatloos and provide an alternative identity for himself , a yorkshireman with an FMOTL fixation
If this whopper thinks that my posts display a FMOTL fixation then I can only presume that he cannot read properly. Other than that he is correct I am indeed a Yorkshireman and proud of it. Still I suppose that I should be flattered that he has taken time to watch me.

I'll see thee.

JimUk1

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jasonDWB
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#18 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by jasonDWB » 09 May 2017 09:52

It seems they all have a FMOTL fixation. Even I have been accused of following it. It's like a religion. You either follow it or you actively criticize it.

It's hard to tell who is in and who is not.
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Michelle1980
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#19 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Michelle1980 » 09 May 2017 22:23

Sorry but I don't really have a clue what is going on. I have taken on board the warnings regarding the person mentioned and will have nothing to do with them and will avoid at all costs.

Thanks

Michelle1980
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#20 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Michelle1980 » 09 May 2017 22:25

Out of interest, what is an "FMOTL"? Apologies for my ignorance....

Michelle1980
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#21 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by Michelle1980 » 09 May 2017 22:28

Michelle1980 wrote:
09 May 2017 22:25
Out of interest, what is an "FMOTL"? Apologies for my ignorance....
Ignore that, I worked it out..

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#22 Re: Bristow & Sutor playing games

Post by jasonDWB » 10 May 2017 10:04

It's a very unusual culture. But the expression "FMOTL" is also applied (incorrectly) to anyone who prevents or avoids debt.
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