Private lane and car removal

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Yheshob
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#1 Private lane and car removal

Post by Yheshob » 01 Jun 2017 21:22

I've read so many things but still not sure where we stand on this one.

Our property is rented and at the bottom of a private lane.

It's not maintained by the council but the land it's on is owned by the same landowner as our property.

As we are at the end of the lane we just drive down the lane and leave our cars on it outside our property.

But it is outside of the boundaries of the property itself. The entire house is fenced and gates are locked so no entry legally possible there I hope but...

What powers do the bailiffs have over the car?

Many thanks

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Pote Snitkin
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#2 Re: Private lane and car removal

Post by Pote Snitkin » 01 Jun 2017 21:55

If it's on land not owned or rented by you, and it's not a highway, then the bailiff can't touch it.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

Yheshob
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#3 Re: Private lane and car removal

Post by Yheshob » 01 Jun 2017 21:59

I should add.. this is for council tax debts

And when I said "It's not maintained by the council but the land it's on is owned by the same landowner as our property"

I meant "the lane is not maintained by the council and the land the lane is on is owned by the same landowner as our property"

I only wanted to clarify that because I'm not sure if the land we are parked on (being owned by the same person) could then be deemed as part of our property and therefore classed as our drive.

Hope that makes sense!

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Pote Snitkin
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#4 Re: Private lane and car removal

Post by Pote Snitkin » 01 Jun 2017 22:26

You'd need to clarify with the landlord/owner what area you are responsible for.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

Yheshob
Posts: 6
Joined: 01 Jun 2017 21:12

#5 Re: Private lane and car removal

Post by Yheshob » 02 Jun 2017 07:20

Ok thanks a lot.

Also can someone just clarify something else. As I said our garden is completely fenced and the gates are locked but in some places the fencing is quite low like this

https://www.crestalafencing.co.uk/lib/c ... 324887.jpg

Does it matter? Climbing is climbing right?

So re. the car if they come and try to clamp or levy on that we just tell them that it's parked on land that's not part of our property and not our responsibility?

Sorry to be so specific I'm out at work all day and need to arm those left in the house whilst I'm out!!

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Pote Snitkin
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#6 Re: Private lane and car removal

Post by Pote Snitkin » 02 Jun 2017 11:41

They would not be allowed to climb over a fence nor a locked gate like the ones shown. Have you clarified whether where you park the car is part of your property?
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

Yheshob
Posts: 6
Joined: 01 Jun 2017 21:12

#7 Re: Private lane and car removal

Post by Yheshob » 02 Jun 2017 15:32

Not managed to speak to them

There is no mention of parking on either our tenancy agreement or on the inventory which details the property and it's state/contents when we moved in

Parking outside on the lane was just something we've always done as it doesn't inconvenience anyone

I assume if someone bought the house the parking area wouldn't be part of the deeds

Yheshob
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Joined: 01 Jun 2017 21:12

#8 Re: Private lane and car removal

Post by Yheshob » 02 Jun 2017 19:49

Pote Snitkin wrote:
02 Jun 2017 11:41
They would not be allowed to climb over a fence nor a locked gate like the ones shown. Have you clarified whether where you park the car is part of your property?
Also just one other little question.

If they gain entry to the garden through an unlocked gate once are we legally obliged to let them in the garden again? (Like the letting them in the house rules)

Or is a front garden gate classed different to a front door?

And then if they should be allowed back into the garden, because they have already been in once, then can they ask for locked sheds to be opened up like locked cupboards if they were to gain entry to house?

Thanks again - has been really helpful

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jasonDWB
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#9 Re: Private lane and car removal

Post by jasonDWB » 02 Jun 2017 21:45

This is the official legal position on clamping and taking control of goods not situated "where the debtor usually lives" "carries on a trade of business".

Paragraph 14(6) Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.
  • (6)Otherwise premises are relevant if the enforcement agent reasonably believes that they are the place, or one of the places, where the debtor—

    (a)usually lives, or

    (b)carries on a trade or business.
An example of court findings on paragraph 14(6) was Jacobs who lifted a debtors car from the allocated parking space outside a block of flats, but the bay the car was lifted from was marked for a neighbour in the same block.

The result was a false arrest for allegedly "obstructing an enforcement agent", but the prosecution failed because the bailiff was not acting in the execution of duty. He was in breach of Paragraph 14(6). The police force settled because the arresting officer and his Inspector both refused an opportunity to discontinue the arrest. The bailiff company paid because the enforcement breached Paragraph 14(6).

I would say that you are safe. Your car is not on a highway, nor situated compliant with Paragraph 14(6). You don't live on the private road outside the boundary of your property as per your tenancy agreement. If the bailiff interfered with it, then its a fail and on comes a claim under Paragraph 66.
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Yheshob
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Joined: 01 Jun 2017 21:12

#10 Re: Private lane and car removal

Post by Yheshob » 03 Jun 2017 09:23

Thanks Jason

Any thoughts on post number 8?

The first time they came they actually entered the front garden to post the first warning of removal through the postbox

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jasonDWB
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#11 Re: Private lane and car removal

Post by jasonDWB » 03 Jun 2017 20:02

Yheshob wrote:
02 Jun 2017 19:49


Also just one other little question.

If they gain entry to the garden through an unlocked gate once are we legally obliged to let them in the garden again? (Like the letting them in the house rules)

No. A dwellinghouse is the building itself. The garden is not a dwelling house. If a building is used for dwelling and commercial, such as a pub or shop with a flat above, only the dwelling part of the property applies.



Or is a front garden gate classed different to a front door?
Yes.

A bailiff can enter a front garden, but he cannot climb over a wall.

He can only enter the property if invited.

There is a saying, If in doubt - keep them out.

And then if they should be allowed back into the garden, because they have already been in once, then can they ask for locked sheds to be opened
No, that is breaking entry,


up like locked cupboards if they were to gain entry to house?
The rule on breaking open locked cupboards was deleted on April 2014 with the enactment of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. Nothing non-moveable can be moved because it involves breaking something and Schedule 12 does not provide indemnity for breakages.

Thanks again - has been really helpful
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