EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

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Edd
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#1 EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Edd » 20 Nov 2017 21:27

Whilst we accept that social media is what it is...this clip reveals a fair bit nonetheless.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GG_Egot711o

We can only go by similar footage, however it makes for pretty uncomfortable viewing. And yet, they (or similar) are allegedly allowed to carry on regardless.....setting a good example? Are they above the law? (Two wrongs seldom make a right, right?)

Make your own minds up.

Ps., maybe this one could remain 'sticky' just to highlight how some companies agents operate? Anyone perhaps feeling alarmed or potentially distressed could be possibly reminded of the fact that these bods are not worth it. Or, not if this type of behaviour is seemingly condoned ..... Until at least such time there's proper change.

And maybe just maybe a more civilised approach beckons.

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#2 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Schedule 12 » 20 Nov 2017 23:10

I've seen much worse this week alone. One bailiff was caught on camera taken behind a closed door telling a single mum to go and unfuck yourself!

Another bailiff towed a car to an auction premises only for it be stolen a within hours when its tracker reported movement heading down the M2.

The case where a clients car was flashed by a congestion charge was actually aboard a tow truck, and not being driven as originally suspected. The client named the bailiff to be the driver and gave a copy of the notice of immobilisation in evidence. Not sure how TFL will go about recovering that.

Another client paid the debt and got his car back from an auction company and discovered it now has a different engine and broken lights (possibly swapped).

Got an injunction to recover a Bentley sports car. The client was a hire car company and a hirer incurred PCN's and the hire company didn't complete the NTO. While out on another hire, it was ANPR lifted. The warrant had the wrong address. The car has damaged paintwork, not on the hire condition report. Only the bailiff's bodycam footage can exonerate the bailiff company from liability. Stratstone's bill wont leave any change of £20K
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Edd
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#3 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Edd » 16 Dec 2017 12:44

Seems to be a bit of a ding-dong going on re vulnerability in another thread. For fear of clogging up that thread and or going off topic the following statement surprised me somewhat? A certain poster said:

"If a person can put together a post seeking help on an internet forum then it would almost certainly exclude them from being deemed vulnerable for enforcement purposes. Their goods would..."

On that basis I guess if that they can just about make it to the eg., nearest citizens advice, they too may not be deemed as not vulnerable?

Have heard and come across some hogwash on forums before - this only underlines this point further. Bottom line remains nobody can pre judge nor predict what exactly is going on behind the doors of any household...erring on the side of caution may perhaps be detrimental to an EAs commission however this does not change the fact and situation at hand. It may well save a lot of hassle/stress etc and frankly even someone's life. It is sometimes pretty sickening when you read comments that not only make assumptions but also somehow disregarding the fact that having heavies at the door could push some over the edge - it is a bit like a throwback to the 18th century.

Funny how north of the border (and elsewhere) none of this poppy-cock actually exists in the same form. Why?

Maybe they have a slightly more civilised approach.....

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#4 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Edd » 16 Dec 2017 13:01

Just to add: it is also not akin to saying to someone..well, if you are able to call Good Samaritans - you must be okay?

Same poster seems to think by adding more personalised insults adds to the weight of the argument? I've said what I've said and whilst not expecting everyone to maybe agree - a reasoned debate can turn into the kind of antics you often find in a playground. And maybe providing evidence to the contrary is only then worthy of debate and adds weight to your argument. I.e., more constructive approach - Whilst I may or may not be met with more verbal, we'll see, others can make up their own minds.

I rest my case.

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#5 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Edd » 16 Dec 2017 13:18

An extremely tragic case indeed:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... or-reforms

So to sum up - if YOU are feeling threatened, intimidated and bullied by someone demanding money then consider the following. It is after all only money. Your wellbeing takes precedent indeed your kids/family may depend on it - and whilst perhaps easier said then done, how YOU feel at the time (factoring in circumstances often beyond your control for eg a zero-hour contract or higher than usual bills) is the most important thing of all.

Nothing else. Don't be fooled otherwise. There are folk on your side despite maybe thinking otherwise. Having less or no money does not make you a bad person. Far from it. Value your well being first....no.1 priority.

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#6 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by John The Baptist » 16 Dec 2017 19:37

You haven't been met with any verbal at all so stop with the crocodile tears.

You are flogging a dead horse and you are using ridiculous comparisons to try to prolong the debate.

Until you can get it into your head that vulnerability for the purposes of enforcement is specifically aimed at those who cannot manage their own financial affairs, it is pointless debating with you.

I said that if a person was able to post on here seeking information, it was likely that they would not be deemed vulnerable for enforcement purposes. Being disabled, unemployed or a single mother will not excuse you from dealing with bailiffs if you fail to pay or at least communicate with the creditor.

If someone can get themselves up to the Samaritans or Citizens Advice, why can't they deal with the creditor at an earlier stage? Bailiffs are only called in as a last resort when all other attempts to collect the debt have failed.

Surely even you can appreciate that if there are genuine concerns and people don't wish to incur bailiff fees, the best course of action would be to deal with the matter, not to wait until bailiffs contact you and then claim to be vulnerable?

Yes, informing the bailiff that there is vulnerability is advisable but this will only impact on how the debt is enforced, it won't mean the case is automatically taken away. Bailiffs do not land on peoples doorsteps mob handed with baseball bats you know? They collect debts using a legal process.

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#7 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Edd » 16 Dec 2017 22:38

Shall say it again and for those who perhaps missed out.

Never, ever fall for the bullying and intimidation type tactics. Never. If that is precisely how you are made to feel - it is not your problem but those who're causing the scene and acting out of order.

Thanks.

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#8 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by John The Baptist » 17 Dec 2017 08:15

Shall say it for those who don't know what they are talking about.

Most bailiffs are filming themselves. It is very rare to find a bailiff who bullies or intimidates people these days.

The problem arises because many bailiffs can be smarmy and slimey, pretending that they are helping you and pretending that they have no option, whilst lying and adding fees that are not compliant.

Sadly, many people read rubbish on internet sites and form this vision of bailiffs going around threatening people and bullying them. It just doesn't happen. Obviously, another problem is people misunderstanding what the term "vulnerability" means as far as debtors are concerned.

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#9 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Pote Snitkin » 17 Dec 2017 08:29

We certainly know a few smarmy ones, eh Gary? There's a debate - should those with a criminal record be employed as bailiffs?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/h ... 50540e5a3d - False alarm, it wasn't him. Maybe next time.

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#10 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Edd » 22 Dec 2017 12:29

From a few years ago, no doubt there are other more recent articles.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/bills/ ... k-law.html

Intimidation, bullying, dirty tactics, threats or coercive controlling behaviour should never be tolerated and no matter the cause.

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#11 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by John The Baptist » 22 Dec 2017 16:13

Yeah

let's just visit these people and hand them a bunch of flowers and ask them nicely if they'd mind settling their overdue account.

Their job is to "threaten" ie, if the debtor doesn't pay then goods will be removed. This doesn't make it illegal to do so, it is the whole purpose of the exercise. In most cases, the threat of having goods removed is enough to entice the debtor to make payment. Do you think we should put debtors in a corner with a dunces cap on for an hour instead?

Any concrete evidence of bullying or intimidation then please forward it to us and we'll have a look into it. Until then, it is pointless behaving like a drama queen.

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#12 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Edd » 05 Jan 2018 15:52

Believe this was covered elsewhere too:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/ ... nforcement

A pretty damning verdict and considering. Many would perhaps imagine that a better example should be set? Apparently two wrongs seldom make a right, therefore trying to use some moral 'high round' argument is more likely to backfire and in doing so, lose the argument. The gent in question, it appears suffered enough distress etc.

As to looking at the wider picture as to how arrears etc can and often occur by circumstances out of people's control - is another argument in itself. Zero hours probably doesn't help yet has increased somewhat over the years. Same token people are supposedly to pay bills when for example their pay falls out of kilter. How can that be right?

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#13 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by John The Baptist » 05 Jan 2018 19:43

No evidence of bullying or intimidation there Edd case - Just the uncorroborated claim of a debtor.

Of all the millions of visits since April 2014, you're not doing very well are you?

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#14 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Pote Snitkin » 05 Jan 2018 20:49

That was some time ago. I believe he even came on here afterwards - the EA was in the wrong and I think he got an apology. Didn't he go for more?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/h ... 50540e5a3d - False alarm, it wasn't him. Maybe next time.

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#15 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Amy » 05 Jan 2018 21:47

What’s wrong with zero hours contracts? For some, it allows them to choose their hours.

The story came from the Guardian, so what do you expect?

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#16 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Edd » 05 Jan 2018 22:51

"What’s more, the bailiff was trespassing and should have been arrested following the brawl, according to a later assessment by the Crown Prosecution Service, which led to all charges against Grant being dropped. A police conduct review also found police officers had misjudged the powers of entry available to bailiffs."

He was exonerated of all blame. As for your constant edd case, amongst others, John whoever you are...?

As you can see I have remained courteous and polite throughout. You seem a bit rattled?
As for Guardian comment Amy, what's wrong with that? What is wrong with the article? And yes zero hours may suit some, agreed. Others it can create problems too I.e., an income which can vary accordingly dependent on the call of others.

Bottom line remains - many cannot always help the position they're in and bills can mount up. It affects those from all walks of life. Bullying and intimidation mustn't be tolerated no matter where it comes from.

I'll go one step further - it is they who are the ones with the problem, those who happen to stoop to using such lowly and uncalled for tactics. As for your other 'dunces hat' stuff John whoever...again, others can decide maybe and being as you continue to spout the same old.

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#17 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Amy » 05 Jan 2018 23:22

The Guardian = liberal and left wing, that’s what’s wrong with that.

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#18 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Edd » 05 Jan 2018 23:52

Personally don't take any notice, left, right or whatever... Unless any news story is of course totally fabricated that is?

As far as I can see this doesn't apply to the above. However the same article was highlighted elsewhere. Not quite sure why my reasoning is getting questioned tbh.

If I've said something inaccurate or misleading I'm always happy to listen. Those who maybe prefer to use 'verbal' or other dismissive or deflection (of subject.) type tactics then fair enough. Their prerogative perhaps not mine. It's an open forum.

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#19 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by John The Baptist » 06 Jan 2018 00:40

Edd case. Please allow me to explain the situation to you.

1. The power of entry is a civil matter. it is unrealistic to expect police officers to be conversant with civil law. The police force exists to uphold criminal law, NOT civil law. Although I am inclined to believe that the bailiff did not have power of entry, it is by no means cut and dry. No doubt the bailiff company would put forward a strong argument as to why they were entitled to enter (not least because the door was open and we only have Grant's word that he was pushed).

2. The bailiff cannot be arrested for trespass - it is a civil matter.

3. A bailiff is protected by statute from allegations of trespass in any case.

4. I am not rattled, I think you are a troublemaker who seeks confrontation with bailiffs a la Chrisy Morriss. Your ignorance is not worth getting rattled about.

5. Yet again you throw the cheap shot of bullying and intimidation and yet again you provide no proof of any taking place.

6. There are far more dishonest debtors than there are dishonest bailiffs. You say nothing about the tactics they stoop to yet continually harp on about imaginary "lowly and uncalled for tactics" carried out by bailiffs.

7. It is nothing to do with "verbal" Edd case - We just want some hard facts rather than your slant on things.

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#20 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Schedule 12 » 06 Jan 2018 12:03

Amy wrote:
05 Jan 2018 21:47
What’s wrong with zero hours contracts? For some, it allows them to choose their hours.
It also means the employer is not obliged to hire the employee.
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#21 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Michelle » 06 Jan 2018 12:52

Schedule 12 wrote:
06 Jan 2018 12:03
Amy wrote:
05 Jan 2018 21:47
What’s wrong with zero hours contracts? For some, it allows them to choose their hours.
It also means the employer is not obliged to hire the employee.
On a zero hours contract, the employee has already been hired but the employer is not obliged to provide him with work. It is an unfair situation because, although the employee may not be legally obliged to work whenever the employer wants, he would still be penalised if he doesn't agree to work whenever he's asked to.

It may suit some people, however, most would find a proper part-time job more suitable, i.e. if you're a student, you may want to work Sundays, if you're a mum, you may want to work mornings 3 to 5 days a week, that's choosing your hours. With zero hours contracts, it is usually the employer who chooses the hours for you.

Although this model is similar to the age old system of registering with agencies as a temp, traditional temp assignments had set minimum hours throughout the duration of the booking, some being open ended.

Zero hours contracts have been responsible for a lot of families being made homeless, as getting in-work benefits can be trickier than when working set hours and/or earning more or less the same amount.
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Anything posted by me is from my own knowledge and experience, it is not legal advice or the official views of this forum.

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#22 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by John The Baptist » 06 Jan 2018 13:25

I think that the point that Edd case is trying to make (albeit none too clearly) is that someone on a zero hour contract can be dropped at a minutes notice by his/her employer but still be liable for full council tax until a claim for benefit is considered.

it is worth noting that there is guidance out there that urges authorities to take into consideration any on going claims and to hold fire on the use of bailiffs until the benefit claim has been decided. A council ignoring this guidance could well be guilty of maladministration and if bailiffs are subsequently engaged, it should be possible to ensure that fees are removed.

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#23 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Edd » 06 Jan 2018 13:51

You can't help yourself can you John..whoever you are? No point really debating with the likes of yourself. Whilst others have entered the debate in a somewhat different tone.

But I will just add the following to clarify things a bit more - nobody really knows each and every situation and when for eg EAs are hammering doors, windows etc. - Assumptions are just that and whether the person or persons are vulnerable, of ill health and or any number of other things, nobody can really tell unless they really have telepathic powers. Just being realistic yet some prefer to twist what I say to somehow either suit their agendas or frankly ignore the main points raised.

Not unlike or when in quite a few cases, when certain complaints are submitted and what becomes more akin to a damage limitation exercise. I.e., Turning the entire story around to effectively make the complainant out as the trouble maker?

As for zero hours - Indeed Michelle points well raised. So many variables again going back to my general point - Each and every situation differs for multiple reasons. And yes some employers are also trying to cope, so given the chance it also suits their situation.
It is a complex situation and will not be persuaded otherwise. A one size fits all approach can have many drawbacks and a tendency to generalise. Parts of the media are happy to stigmatise certain groups too - also makes quite a few folk, sadly the types I have sometimes the displeasure to meet..who fall for some of the guff. A kind of misplaced anger and anguish via completely falsehood type reasoning. Brainwashed? Yes feeling sorry for them is one option I suppose.

And also those quite happy to make wide sweeping, stereotypical statements that are probably more suited to a school playground environment. Actually no, that may be offensive to the sensible kids who hopefully won't fall for the media hype/guff (add expletive.)

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#24 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by John The Baptist » 06 Jan 2018 14:04

I'm just telling you how it is, not how you think it should be in the weird and wonderful world of Edd case.

If someone is vulnerable, they have the same opportunity to deal with the issue way before a bailiff visits. If it is that important for them to not have to speak with a bailiff then surely, the sensible thing would be to pick up the telephone and deal with the matter. Simply ignoring it and then crying vulnerability when the bailiff turns up will seldom work.

Instead of trawling YT watching all the garbage on there, why not do something constructive and try to stop people being ripped off by being charged non-compliant fees. Your continued pipe dreams of bailiffs going around threatening and intimidating people is little more than laughable. Do you live in the real world?

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#25 Re: EAs behaviour - under the spotlight?

Post by Edd » 06 Jan 2018 14:20

Frankly couldn't give a jot if you disagree or indeed otherwise. However I tend to refrain from shoving any opinion down anyone's throat. Which leads to okay we are all entitled to one? No probs there.

Others can then maybe decide which planet anyone is living on - once they've deciphered fact from fiction or stereotypical none sense that is. Or at least found a more balanced middle ground option. I quite like the latter option personally and hopefully take a more general approach by letting others make up their own minds. Sounds fair enough to me.

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