Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Mark1960
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#36 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Mark1960 » 25 Sep 2015 09:14

Christ on a bike.

She's found another excuse to mention Thorton v Rossendales. :lol:

I reckon that she must be on some form of payment scheme with the bailiff industry, a payment for every time she mentions it.

What possible relevance that case has to this one though is anyone's guess.

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#37 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Mark1960 » 25 Sep 2015 09:45

& also Sheila, in the interests of clarity, the lady in the court case you are referring to asked for her thread to be removed ( to a private section) because Peter F was quoting from it.

It might help if you get your facts right before making these tiresome announcements

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#38 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by theronstar » 25 Sep 2015 10:48

Mark1960 wrote:I'm referring to your case.

Unless anything further develops in this case, I consider it over.
I don't really know how to respond to your post. :shock:

I hope you never have to experience being waken up out of bed, roughed up, paraded into a 'stretch limo' and then left to ponder your wrongdoing in a police cell whilst awaiting your interrogation. Yes, let's consider this discussion over. Good day to you sir.

P.S. I think Sheila was referring to the likelihood of getting damages on the back of the 'tort of trespass'. Entirely different scenario but I guess it is the closest case law example available.

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#39 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Mark1960 » 25 Sep 2015 11:08

It's actually not the closest case law available.

Sheila is obsessed with that particular case and mentions it at every given opportunity. Her motive is to bump up the Google ratings.

The case was a huge success for the bailiff industry and one in the eye for those who try to help debtors. The fact that Sheila celebrates this result tells you everything you need to know about her.

Good to you, too sir

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#40 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Pote Snitkin » 25 Sep 2015 12:12

At least we're being civil, sir.

:mrgreen:
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#41 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Mark1960 » 25 Sep 2015 12:38

What a surprise-she's starting a new thread :lol:

Why is she so obsessed with figures viewing her posts? Does anyone else care about the Thorton case apart from her?

Is there any need for yet another thread about this, especially given that the case is irrelevant post April 2014.

Last time she "started a new thread" on this, the regulars moaned & PT told her that it had been done to death many times and that there was no need for yet another one. Why this idiotic, obsessed old dinosaur thinks that it will be any different this time is anyone's guess

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#42 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Pote Snitkin » 25 Sep 2015 14:03

Those 'extra views' will be her refreshing the page over and over.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#43 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by theronstar » 09 Oct 2015 12:54

"Without Prejudice" JBW apologised to me today.

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Andy
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#44 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Andy » 09 Oct 2015 14:08

WHHHHHHHHAAAAAAT!? :o :o :o :o :o :o :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
2nd Year University Law Student.

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#45 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Pote Snitkin » 09 Oct 2015 14:32

Soooo... what does it say?
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#46 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Schedule 12 » 09 Oct 2015 16:14

Make an offer for them to settle. Im not suggesting your silence has a price but they ought to remedy it with something meaningful now they acknowledge they were in the wrong, and make a promise of not repeating it.

JBW is on the back foot.
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#47 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Hopeless » 10 Oct 2015 02:31

theronstar wrote:
Mark1960 wrote:I'm referring to your case.

Unless anything further develops in this case, I consider it over.
I don't really know how to respond to your post. :shock:

I hope you never have to experience being waken up out of bed, roughed up, paraded into a 'stretch limo' and then left to ponder your wrongdoing in a police cell whilst awaiting your interrogation. Yes, let's consider this discussion over. Good day to you sir.

P.S. I think Sheila was referring to the likelihood of getting damages on the back of the 'tort of trespass'. Entirely different scenario but I guess it is the
closest case law example available.


Hi there,

I read your story on the Guardian. So sorry for what you went through. Hope you are OK now.

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#48 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by theronstar » 10 Oct 2015 13:08

Notwithstanding the "without prejudice" it was very apologetic.

I don't want to go around posting it on Internet forums as that would be in poor taste. If there was a way I could 'snapchat' it or show it to you in person I would be happy to do so. I wonder if the queue for this would be akin to the queue Harry Potter's book releases generated. :D

I was a little shocked to get the letter for the fact they are so bullet proof. I would lay it down to the fact the Local Government Ombudsman was chasing up Wandsworth Council due to Mark 1960s suggestion I write to them. I have an anonymous contact at the Council and she said that the directors really want this to just die as they are sick to the back teeth of it. My theory is councils are the lifeblood of a bailiff company and they are last unit they would want to sour relations with?

I don't know if the council told them the UKs leading Criminal QC is being supportive of me but that would have been another reason to try and de-escalate.

I will try and figure out a response to their letter!

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#49 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Pote Snitkin » 10 Oct 2015 13:11

I'm sure Amy would set you up a members thread for privacy.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#50 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by theronstar » 10 Oct 2015 15:11

Hopeless wrote:
theronstar wrote:
Mark1960 wrote:I'm referring to your case.

Hi there,

I read your story on the Guardian. So sorry for what you went through. Hope you are OK now.
Thanks for your kind words. Hopefully this can resolve. I am not back to normalcy yet.
Pote Snitkin wrote:I'm sure Amy would set you up a members thread for privacy.
Indeed she probably could although this would still not prevent people from pressing the print screen/copy and paste button. I just don't think it would be in good taste.

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#51 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Schedule 12 » 10 Oct 2015 15:39

Only a trusted few can see members. Nobody from CAG.

I do agree it should not be published on a forum until JBW has made a proposal. Send the invitation the JBW and see what comes back.
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Mark1960
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#52 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Mark1960 » 10 Oct 2015 17:39

Indeed she probably could although this would still not prevent people from pressing the print screen/copy and paste button. I just don't think it would be in good taste.
I doubt very much whether anyone on here would do that if it was specifically requested not to be done.

You have to remember that you have courted publicity for this, in newspapers and on internet sites. Many people have expressed an interest and shown concern and support for you. I'm sure you can understand their frustrations that you are now appearing to be selective in what you want publicised.

As for being in bad taste-This is the company who were prepared to make you travel to Darlington to listen to a recording when they could quite simply have emailed it to you. The same company who have apologised but are so "genuinely sincere", that they are trying their hardest to ensure that they do not have to part with money to compensate your suffering. I would probably be inclined to keep the letter off the net but not because of concerns over "bad taste"-I've seen an example of their bad taste on the TV in the past. They have no compassion or genuine feelings for those unfortunate enough to be poor and in debt.

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#53 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Amy » 12 Oct 2015 09:08

Pote Snitkin wrote:I'm sure Amy would set you up a members thread for privacy.
I certainly will, I'll do it later today.

Obviously, he doesn't need to put anything in there unless he wants too, but I can assure him that whatever is said will remain private.

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#54 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Hopeless » 13 Oct 2015 07:46

theronstar wrote:"Without Prejudice" JBW apologised to me today.
Mine is a similar case to yours. Happened before yours. But I am still waiting for the case to be heard...

Lol, the last time it was postponed, the reason of 'holiday' was used. Twice!

Maybe I need to go on 'holiday' on the new list date. ROFL!!!


Post by jasonDWB » 24 Sep 2015 15:27

JBW is doing it because the bailiff industry is desperate for a conviction for obstruction. Prosecutions for alleged paragraph 68 go tits up at trial and exposes the bailiff and the police to being accused. The CPS won't want to touch it.
Jason, not true. The Crown took on mine :)

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#55 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Schedule 12 » 13 Oct 2015 10:16

JBW got a conviction but with it, a civil claim for the car. The court found that car was his own.
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#56 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Mark1960 » 13 Oct 2015 10:29

Obstruction cases are failing due to lack of police training and a tendency to side with the bailiff regardless.

Unless he's attempting to seize goods and is physically being stopped, what else can constitute obstruction?

With no levy and no access to goods, how and why would a bailiff be obstructed? I would guess that if his access to a front door was blocked, then technically that is obstruction but why the need to do this if the door is locked anyway?

Bailiffs are too quick to phone the police when a debtor lawfully refuses to cooperate and the police are too quick to intervene. This is why these charges are being dropped so regularly.

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#57 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Schedule 12 » 13 Oct 2015 11:02

I expect JBW will have to swallow the claim for the car when the council comes asking for their money. The DVLA has stopped the V5 to the new keeper, that by itself could create a liability for the seller, to refund the purchase price because DVLA will not tax the car on public roads.

JBW didn't pay the balance of sale to the debtor, and that might be difficult to explain to the court when deciding the claim.
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#58 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by theronstar » 23 Oct 2015 12:27

I just figured if I went around the Internet posting the letter, I would be discouraging JBW from being amicable with debtors they may have a dispute with in the future.

I don't know if my line of thought makes any sense?

Given you guys paid a lot of attention to my story and the bailiff industry in general, it's only reasonable that I share it with you. I am going to PM the people who look like they would be interested. Thanks for not posting it round the Internet!

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#59 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Amy » 23 Oct 2015 12:31

Would you like me to set up a private space for you now?

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#60 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by theronstar » 23 Oct 2015 12:37

If anyone comes forward that expresses an interest then sure!

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#61 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Schedule 12 » 23 Oct 2015 14:25

Subscribe me.
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#62 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by theronstar » 16 Jan 2016 20:25

I never had a private space set up in the end so I am happy to just post this here.

I settled with the police for £5000. As you will see below, the police can perform an arrest on their own 'reasonable suspicion' and I felt this would be too arduous to battle.

Moreover, I was in arrears of £2000 with my landlord and I had a court hearing for eviction!

Ronald Grant v The Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis

We hereby enclose a Part 36 offer to settle this claim.

We believe that your claim is capable of defence in law; please see the letter of repudiation sent separately. The offer to settle is made on a goodwill basis only.

Please confirm your acceptance and we will requisition a cheque.

Liability is denied in relation to all allegations set out in the letter of claim.

The police case

You were arrested on suspicion of assault against an enforcement agent on 5 November 201 4 by PC Roach.

The enforcement agent attended your home, Flat 35A Trefoil Road, to execute a liability order regarding outstanding council tax debts. A discussion between you and the agent took place at the

communal door. The agent did not enter the premises. The discussion went well but at the conclusion the agent asked to speak to the occupier of Flat 35B. You refused him entry and told him to ring the doorbell at Flat 35B. A scuffle ensued and the agent called the police complaining that you had assaulted him.

PC Roach and PC Wombell attended and spoke to the enforcement agent. They then spoke to you, and you admitted that there had been a scuffle but claimed that the enforcement agent had assaulted you.

You referred PC Wombell to your neighbour, who you said had witnessed the incident. PC Wombell spoke to your neighbour. She had seen you both holding onto each other and trying to hit each other. She had not seen the start of the incident and did not know what had caused it.

PC Roach arrested you on suspicion of assault. PC Wombell carried out a search of your person as required by section 32 of PACE. You were not handcuffed.

You then returned to your flat as you had forgotten something. PC Wombell searched you again just before you got into the police van, as you had been out of his sight.

You were taken to Wandsworth police station in a police van with PC Wombell. Your detention was authorised by the custody sergeant.

After interview, you were charged with assault and released on bail after being detained for around 8 hours.

The CPS reviewed the case on 21 November 2014 and issued a notice of discontinuance due to evidential difficulties.

You subsequently made a complaint, which found that your arrest was correct. Some failings were found, but they do not render your arrest unlawful.

The law

False imprisonment

Your arrest was justified as PC Roach genuinely suspected that you had committed the offence of assault, based upon the allegations made by the enforcement agent.

It is clear that PC Roach had sufficient information to base her suspicion that you had assaulted the enforcement agent. The fact that it was later decided by the CPS that you had a defence to a charge of assault (i.e. the use of reasonable force to remove the enforcement agent, a trespasser, from your premises), does not render the arrest itself unlawful. The complaint investigation found that your arrest was lawful.

Any claim for false imprisonment will be fully defended.

Malicious prosecution

In malicious prosecution the burden is on the claimant throughout. To be successful in a claim for malicious prosecution you will therefore need to prove a number of things:

a) that criminal proceedings were instigated against you, and

b) that they were determined in your favour, and

c) that there was no reasonable and probable cause for the charge being preferred and/or continued against you, and

d) that the police were actuated by malice, that is to say by some improper motive other than a genuine desire to secure the ends of justice, and

e) that as a result you suffered loss.

The CPS decision to discontinue the charge does not detract from the strength of the initial evidence. Even if you are able to prove point c), there is no evidence at all that any officer acted in anyway other than with a genuine desire to secure the ends of justice. Any claim for malicious prosecution will be denied.

Aggravated and Exemplary damages

This is not a case for aggravated or exemplary damages. It is denied that the conduct of the officers was arbitrary, oppressive or unconstitutional. The officers acted in good faith at all times.

Injuries

You claim that you were diagnosed with depression after this incident. We have received no medical evidence to support this claim.

Loss of earnings

We have received no evidence to support this claim.

Service of proceedings

Please note that we are not instructed to accept service of any proceedings. These should be sent by post to the Directorate of Legal Services quoting reference 1 1851 4.

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#63 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Schedule 12 » 16 Jan 2016 21:25

Thanks for bringing the results for us. I'm very pleased to see you won a part 36 offer of £5000.

I would like to introduce you to a client of mine who is in a similar position as you. He was also roughed up, detained and transported without committing an offence. I would also like to show your paperwork to a solicitor I use that specialises in police and unlawful arrests. I think your case makes an excellent example to follow.
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#64 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Pote Snitkin » 16 Jan 2016 21:42

'Goodwill basis' :mrgreen: .
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#65 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by theronstar » 16 Jan 2016 21:49

I am happy to do so. A couple of questions.

Should I still pursue a case against JBW/Wandsworth Council?

Should their be a follow up news story about my result?

I can't think of what pieces of evidence you would want in particular. So if you do not already have them then please let me know?

Personally, I think media attention around bailiffs is a good thing. I would not have found your group had it not been for this.

I am sure there is a lot of undocumented stuff out there.

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#66 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by theronstar » 16 Jan 2016 21:51

Pote Snitkin wrote:'Goodwill basis' :mrgreen: .
If had opted for a fight - how long do you think this would have likely dragged on for?

I can't put into words how drained I felt at the end of 2015 :!:

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#67 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Schedule 12 » 17 Jan 2016 10:44

I'll ask Amy for a members thread for you and we can see what heads of claim you have against the council and or JBW.

I think everything should be uploaded so we have all your evidence in one place and select members of the board can collaborate to build your claim.

I'll need to seek advice on whether you can use Without Prejudice correspondence in a new claim.

If you want. I can refer you to a solicitor in confidence, but it's likely to be a fee arrangement. It can be a damages based claim which is a no win no fee arrangement. You only pay the court fee but you get these back if you win your claim. With a police settlement and a bailiff apology, it's a strong claim.
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#68 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by theronstar » 17 Jan 2016 15:24

Hey,

I can upload things here but alternatively can wait until this elusive members thread ;)

To me it is more about creating a deterrent/case law against this kind of thing happening again. I am sad that the Croydon Magistrate case dropped.

Without prejudice - to me - always seemed to be a phrase used in order to stop something being used as evidence in a court room.

I am in a position to pay for legal advice or if possible make a legal aid application as I am in receipt of Universal Credit.

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#69 Re: Police blunder (wrongful arrest)

Post by Schedule 12 » 17 Jan 2016 16:06

Contact me. Jason at dealing with Bailiffs.Co.UK
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