Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

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Mark1960
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#1 Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Mark1960 » 29 Dec 2015 09:50

"Phone the police, he's being obstructive"

Not allowing entry is NOT being obstructive, it is a perfectly lawful thing to do. This is a classic example of bailiffs abusing the "obstructing a bailiff" scenario. Exercising your lawful right in a way that works against the bailiff is not being obstructive. Calling the police serves no other purpose than adding a bit of pressure onto the debtor. This of course comes at a cost to the taxpayer. Our police force do not attend civil or domestic incidents to help one side/party win an argument.

Mr Roberts was not threatened, he was not in any immediate danger and there was no indication that a breach of the peace would occur. His bottle may well have gone because he was faced with a traveller, rather than a single mum but this is no excuse to get the police involved-Again the police should not be called every time the bailiff looses his bottle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BATwAIq6J5k

The days appear to be over when clueless police officers are arresting every Tom Dick & Harry for obstructing a bailiff-They now seem to be aware of what exactly constitutes obstruction. Unfortunately, this has come at further cost to the tax payer in thousands of pounds worth od wasted police man hours and failed prosecutions.

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Andy
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#2 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Andy » 29 Dec 2015 12:02

I would like to see the law that compels someone to identify themselves just because the bailiff has a warrant of control.

What seems to be the case here is that the bailiff was claiming obstruction simply because the man refused to identify himself. That is boardering on saying that refusing to talk to a bailiff is obstruction.
2nd Year University Law Student.

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Schedule 12
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#3 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Schedule 12 » 29 Dec 2015 13:03

The prosecution definition of a bailiff acting lawfully is having a certificate and a warrant of control for the address he is attending.

The moment the bailiff breaks the law, he it not acting lawfully.

That is why obstruction prosecutions fail. And since Magistrates award Defendants costs orders. I give all my clients solicitor represention. All defendants costs, including my fee, is thrown at the taxpayer. It brings on an expensive civil claim that inevitably follows. That is borne by the creditor, who is usually a government entity but in all probability, it gets charged to the bailiffs liability insurer.

Some police forces have learned the hard way. They instuct their officers at a bailiff situation to walk away.
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#4 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Mark1960 » 29 Dec 2015 13:23

This is the problem-As usual, the bailiffs are taking the law to the extreme. It is an abuse which is costing the taxpayer a lot of money.

I would fully expect that if a person on the doorstep continued to refuse to identify himself then a bailiff would be within his rights to force entry at some point further down the line. Any innocent third party has the opportunity to prove who they are and if they refuse to do so, there can be little sympathy for them.

My concern is that at a time when people like Pote & Outlaw are being chastised for the number of FOI's sent in (which cost all of around £25 to address), why nobody has picked up on the fact that bailiffs are contacting the police, every time a debtor refuses entry through lawful means.

In this video, Roberts wasn't going to get paid a penny if he didn't collect-As a last resort, he used the police in a desperate attempt to try to earn something from the visit. Sending a car and officers to an address is very costly-Many more times than the £25 incurred for processing an FOI. If entry was refused, Roberts should have gone away & ensured that the warrant was approved for immediate removal of goods (I think Marstons call it a "Target Warrant"). This would mean that he would not have been paid on the day but I suspect that he's not permitted to force entry until his bosses escalate it to a Target Warrant.

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#5 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Mark1960 » 29 Dec 2015 13:33

jasonDWB wrote:The prosecution definition of a bailiff acting lawfully is having a certificate and a warrant of control for the address he is attending.

The moment the bailiff breaks the law, he it not acting lawfully.

That is why obstruction prosecutions fail. And since Magistrates award Defendants costs orders. I give all my clients solicitor represention. All defendants costs, including my fee, is thrown at the taxpayer. It brings on an expensive civil claim that inevitably follows. That is borne by the creditor, who is usually a government entity but in all probability, it gets charged to the bailiffs liability insurer.

Some police forces have learned the hard way. They instuct their officers at a bailiff situation to walk away.
In fairness, Roberts did have a certificate and a warrant of control for the address.

Prosecutions fail because, except in the most extreme circumstances (physically preventing a bailiff from clamping a car for example), obstruction does not occur.

Police are wising up to this and are becoming more and more reluctant to arrest people for obstruction.

It is rare for magistrates to award defendants costs-Even rarer than succeeding to prosecute for obstruction. Simply being found not guilty does not entitle you to costs-You have to prove that the prosecution was unreasonable in the first place. Its similar to costs in county court claims.

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#6 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Schedule 12 » 29 Dec 2015 14:35

Every defendant who has been cleared has been awarded his costs. They are nearly always taxed, but that is OK. That includes defendants cleared of obvious drink driving offences because police mislaid evidence.

Clients cannot reclaim my fee as a McKenzie friend, so I put a solicitor on it and my fee is claimed as an 'expert witness'. That means I have to wait outside court until I'm called and stops me seeing the action. If my retainer is for drafting only then I can sit in the hearing to assist the representing solicitor, but the allowed fee is minimal.
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#7 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Mark1960 » 29 Dec 2015 15:21

Hardly any cases actually go to court-They are dropped at the last minute (see Cam for ecample)

Those are the ones where costs may very possibly be entitled. The ones that actually get through to trial are the ones with the most chance of success-It is highly unlikely, bordering on impossible that all of these attract costs whereas not guilty for any other charge does not.

The Jacobs one that you showed me for example-The bloke did obstruct the bailiff because he wouldn't leave the car (which was controlled & in the custody of the law) when the removal truck arrived.

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#8 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Schedule 12 » 29 Dec 2015 20:25

The abandoned prosecutions can still apply for costs. It's called abortive costs.

The civil equivalent is wasted costs.
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Ed kart2
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#9 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Ed kart2 » 23 Feb 2016 18:43

How on earth are these people allowed to carry out their enforcement not least retain their certificates? They say a picture never lies let alone a clear video clip that reveals so much more. Making alleged threats is one thing, but doing so as a so called public servant or ambassador for a company (self employed or otherwise.) is pretty disgusting if not abhorrent.

Surely it has to stop.

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#10 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Mark1960 » 23 Feb 2016 19:56

Ed kart2 wrote:How on earth are these people allowed to carry out their enforcement not least retain their certificates? They say a picture never lies let alone a clear video clip that reveals so much more. Making alleged threats is one thing, but doing so as a so called public servant or ambassador for a company (self employed or otherwise.) is pretty disgusting if not abhorrent.

Surely it has to stop.
This is what a Marstons bailiff told us:
Marstons management do encourage EA's to call the police under the guise of feeling threatened, even if the debtor is not going anything wrong.
Ironically, this tactic has come back to bite them on the bum somewhat because police forces are now less willing to send officers around at the drop of a hat.

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#11 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Schedule 12 » 23 Feb 2016 20:16

And several cases involved police forces settling damages and there is more of them on the go.
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#12 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Ed kart2 » 23 Feb 2016 22:13

Plenty more examples on you tube. The comments section alone, tagged onto these clips surely paints a far from pretty picture? Where's the responsibility being taken to potentially stop something worse from happening and stopping rogue EA behaviour.

Incredible to think that it seemingly goes on unchecked or that is the impression given. How someone's ego or misplaced sense of authority/power can potentially lead to trouble is beyond comprehension. This isn't civilised behaviour nor will it build any bridges. It will more than likely backfire and considering the current climate, a few rogues here and there are evidently going to spoil it for the rest.

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#13 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Schedule 12 » 24 Feb 2016 09:22

Rogue bailiffs originate from rogue bailiff companies.

We will never eradicate them, so I turn it into a money trail. Turn rogue bailiff companies into cash by offering a solicitor referral service and they recover costs from them.
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#14 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Amy » 24 Feb 2016 10:19

"Rouge" bailiffs Jason, get it right!

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#15 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Schedule 12 » 24 Feb 2016 13:11

Your never going to forgive Sheila for that are you?

She has done lots worse.

Got another complaint about her.. This thread. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo ... move-goods.

The question the OP asked was about the extent of authority the bailiff had for taking control of goods.

She was unhappy with Sheila hijacking the thread and taking it off topic going on about being prosecuted for making an untrue statement.
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#16 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by rihana10 » 10 Feb 2017 11:45

Ed kart2 wrote:
23 Feb 2016 22:13
Plenty more examples on you tube. The comments section alone, tagged onto these clips surely paints a far from pretty picture? Where's the responsibility being taken to potentially stop something worse from Texas dui online classes happening and stopping rogue EA behaviour.

Incredible to think that it seemingly goes on unchecked or that is the impression given. How someone's ego or misplaced sense of authority/power can potentially lead to trouble is beyond comprehension. This isn't civilised behaviour nor will it build any bridges. It will more than likely backfire and considering the current climate, a few rogues here and there are evidently going to spoil it for the rest.
Hi
Did you read the whole article???

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#17 Re: Des Roberts-Wasting Police Time

Post by Schedule 12 » 10 Feb 2017 11:54

Your post says you are accessing from Romania. Welcome to England! (and Wales).
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