Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

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#1 Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Schedule 12 » 01 May 2017 09:07

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... or-reforms

If Newlyn didn't cheat by charging £235 twice, the outcome might have been different.
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#2 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Edd » 01 May 2017 09:36

I believe this same case was highlighted in another thread however this does not detract from the fact...the gloves are off.

Something will be done to halt this wicked trade. How sixty odd quid becomes thousands is beyond comprehension? It is morally repugnant and there is absolutely zero justification in making a sticky situation even worse. How anyone can feel remotely proud, receive any kind of job satisfaction from preying on the vulnerable allegedly "following orders" just to get fees makes me feel sick to the core.

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#3 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Schedule 12 » 01 May 2017 10:20

This is a reason why it's pointless bailiffs setting their own valuations on debtors goods. They value to their own agenda to get round the £1350 exempt goods ceiling.

Newlyn didn't just put someone out of a job as a bike courier to further it's own commercial gains.
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#4 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Edd » 01 May 2017 10:42

It goes further than that Jason, I mean, all over an alleged parking ticket? What was the worst that could happen or if for eg someone out stays their welcome even by a few minutes? Poor chap must have felt like a hardened criminal and the way he was effectively being hounded for what is frankly piffle..unfortunately at the time and for no doubt other possible underlying circumstances it was enough to push someone over the edge.

I'm no shrink but I can understand how this can and does very sadly occur. It sadly happened to a friend albeit a different set of circumstances but there are correlations. I guess having some empathy for others is probably why it makes me feel sick - or that it is allowed to continue seemingly unabated. Why the hell have other countries, including I believe north of the border discovered some common sense?

Something must be very wrong if these are the desperate measures being taken so that others can make a living. We may have advanced in so many other ways but this practice would have been frowned upon in the bloody stone ages. And rightly so!

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#5 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 01 May 2017 10:47

It's time for the use of bailiffs for state 'created' debt to end.
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#6 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Edd » 01 May 2017 10:49

Something is plainly wrong when the judiciary speaks out. What was done to tackle concerns? Zippo...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 92130.html

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#7 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 01 May 2017 12:24

jasonDWB wrote:
01 May 2017 09:07
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... or-reforms

If Newlyn didn't cheat by charging £235 twice, the outcome might have been different.
They seem to have charged a lot more - by my calculation £810. Yet the coroner said the bailiff, Ross Cutler, had been reasonable? Did she not question this amount?
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#8 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Schedule 12 » 01 May 2017 14:50

She didn't question whether the bailiff was acting lawfully.

I'll do a fee assessment later. That will find out if the bailiff was reasonable.

It is unlikely to have been the debt that induced suicide. Two PCNs £97 each. Everything else in Newlyns pocket.
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#9 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 01 May 2017 14:57

I've already worked it out - each PCN would've increased to £104.50, so 2 of those is £209. The bailiff wanted £1019, so he's added £810 in fees.
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#10 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 01 May 2017 15:02

Oops, my error. Each PCN would be £97.50, making £195, so he's actually added £824. Where does he get that from?
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#11 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 01 May 2017 15:08

Nope, I was right the first time - forgot to add the £7 on each one. Leave me alone. I'm tired. Or drunk.
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#12 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Schedule 12 » 01 May 2017 15:19

It should be 2 x £75 plus one £235. That is £385.

We have lots of cases where Newlyn is caught charging multiple £235 enforcement stage fee for concurrent enforcement against the same debtor.

In a recent court case. Newlyn solicitor unsuccessfully argued with a judge the multiple fees are exceptional circumstances.

I think Newlyns cavalier attitude to breaking enforcement rules is created by a solicitor promising to fix anything and scare away debtors with threats of costs orders and attacking their personal circumstances. He does nothing to work the problem.
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#13 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by JimUk1 » 03 May 2017 08:32

Good morning everyone. Long time lurker here so thought it was about time I would join in. Newlyn have responded to this at posts 14,17 & 18 below:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo ... wing)-nbsp

Interesting theory they have about adding a second enforcement fee there. They seem to think if you default on an arrangement then they can punish you for it by charging a second enforcement fee.

Hands up who seriously didn't see this coming?

Then again, tinfoil hats at the ready....

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#14 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Schedule 12 » 03 May 2017 09:03

Where has Newlyn responded?

Sheila is making excuses for them. It's all right for Newlyn to overvalue goods to suit their agenda even contradicting a manufacturer valuation. It's alright to defraud a debtor by breaching regulation 11(4) of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014.

Can someone get a PDF of the CAG thread for the library pls. I'm using a phone.
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#15 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 03 May 2017 09:10

jasonDWB wrote:
03 May 2017 09:03
Where has Newlyn responded?
I think it was implied that Newlyn have responded via their CAG PR officer. No mention from her about the £810 fees that were added.
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#16 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by JimUk1 » 04 May 2017 11:26

Hi jasonDWB yes, it seems clear to me that Newlyn have responded via their PR officer. May I be the first to call it....

BREAKING NEWS NEWLYN BULLSH%T ALERT SHOCKER!!!1!!!

As is usually the case, Newlyns PR officer demonstrates an utterly hopeless misunderstanding of legislation. If 2 enforcement visits can be carried out at the same time then only 1 fee is charged and that is what happened because the repayment agreement was agreed at the same time as the £500 was paid. Newlyn can't then charge another fee later on Besides.... even if 2 fees were charged it is not up to Newlyn to decide which fee was paid.

As for the bailiff acting "reasonably" even Newlyn will have trouble spinning that one. How is it reasonable to add £235 unlawfully? Espcialy after what happened.

Also if it wasn't Newlyn who drove the poor man to this then it is a mighty coincidence that it happened during the Newlyn visit and the bailiff was the last person to see him. We all want to earn more cash but hopefully this sorry tale has helped create an understanding of why you should really use the rules my parent taught me - "hard to come by, easy to spend! So be tight" and I am a real mommys boy.... still that is better than been a mommy whose own daughter won't even speak to her aye?

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#17 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Schedule 12 » 04 May 2017 13:26

During the case of Larnyoh at Croydon county court, Newlyns solicitor fessed that Newlyn has a history of charging the £235 enforcement stage fee multiple times for action against the same debtor. He told the court that it was a computer software error. A law firm has become involved in investigating it and asked for the Larnyoh transcripts. My own hand-written notes taken down at the hearing cannot be treated as authority.

It seems that has not been fixed. The deceased was defrauded by nearly £1500!. The bailiff was all nicey-nicey at the inquest because he knew he was guilty as hell when cheating him out of so much money and making the falsified valuation of the deceased motorbike.

The manufacturer of the bike gave a valuation well below £1350, but Newlyn is yet to show its calculations how it arrived at a much higher figure. The is a repeat. Newlyn gave a £7500 valuation on a VW minibus used for private hire. When an HPI check showed it has finance, Newlyn revalued it £15000.

This information was withheld from the inquest. It appears Newlyn was not being entirely honest and forthcoming about its conduct in handling the enforcement action leading to Jerome Rogers death. It would appear there is a move to revisit the circumstances.
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#18 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by JimUk1 » 04 May 2017 13:55

If this wasn't such a serious topic it would be time for someone to make a comedy out of this.... Newlyn appear to have contacted Marstons and arranged to have the thread moved from the bailiff section to the debt collectors section.

I'm thinking something reminiscent of Open All Hours, a fabulous dramatic epic and surely the next Breaking Bad?????

Don't you all agree that CAG mirrors a corner shop type of enterprise? Still when have bailiff companies been blessed with imagination aye?
Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#19 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 04 May 2017 14:08

Interesting that no-one's mentioned that over there. Why do they want to hide it away?
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#20 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by JimUk1 » 18 May 2017 20:26

HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM!!1
BA and I believe DodgeBall (correct me if I am wrong DB) were invloved with the new Regs,
Were they really????? Answers on a postcard please
For example, in a case that I am currently advising on, the court have stated that they are not willing to make such an order. In another case with a vehicle valued at £5,200, the Judge reduced the 'payment into court' down to £500.
MFing now are we? If you cant beat em join em thats what our dad always used to say. Did your well drafted letter (that never fails) fail then? What did the bailiffs say when the court stated that they were going to ignore CPR? This is what Dodgeball said.....
The CPR is in place whatever your personal opinions on how it got there.
A genuine 'third party' would have genuine documentation and would have no hesitation in providing copies in support of their Part 85 (4) claim
But wouldnt a genuine third party have the chance to do this before the car was removed? Surely the only ones removed are those that seem dodgy? If the paperwork is no good at the time of removal its hardly likely to become better when attached to one of your well drafted letters is it?
I am not going to keep repeating myself on this point.
Caelsburg dont do BA posts.....But if they did.....
perhaps i should have been clearer,
Why break the habbit of a lifetime?
It was introduced because of the number of vehicles(mostly) which would end up disappearing during proceedings .
It was widely criticised at the time of introduction by many(including me).
Do you not think it was more to do with the fact that people would often lose in court and then claim they had no money to pay the legal costs of the other side? Just a wild guess on my part.
One point that I would like to raise here is that the OP stated that his or her car has been clamped in respect of the ex partners debt. Regulars on here will know that the regulations do allow for 'jointly owned' goods to be taken in control. The OP did not state what the realtionship had been between the two of them so it is difficult to know whether or not the vehicle could be considered 'jointly owned' or not.
I think the phrase ex-partner kind of gave us a clue as to what the relationship was.
That is probably because I will only give assistance to a genuine claimant and not one who is looking at inventing a 'sham' sale.
Nothing like been impartial and non-judgemental I guess. As a matter of interest, how would one pass the BA genuine claimant test?
As for HP i dont think the debtor has any rights under a injunction either, in that the goods are not his.
No I agree with you. He should be expected to continue paying for the hire and leave everything in the lap of the Gods as to whether he gets the car back or not. If its his work vehicle then he can have a few weeks off... no problem.
As things are at the moment, it will be they who will decide the ultimate fate of the vehicle.
Do you want to have time to have a think again about this claim?
The time period stated is almost certainly a great deal shorter that would be achieved by way of an injunction (and without the costs involved).
Isnt a injunction an emergency that is heard the next day? Also I don't think it costs more than about £250 to get one.
Reading accurate information on here may very well assist them.
Perhaps its time for you to put a sock in it then.... I see little accurate information from you thus far.
What is agreed by all posters is that the CORRECT procedure is to use Part 85 of the Civil Procedure Rules.
From where im sitting its actually only agreed by you and Dodgeball and given that hed jump into a river if you told him to, its hardly an overwhelming majority is it?
I am personally assisting with two such applications at this present time
Yes...we knew this. Whatever the current debate is at any given time, you always happen to be personally assisting in two such cases at that time.
I think the reason is that HP companies have said they will not allow the EA to continue with the sale after seizure. At least this is what I am hearing.
So are HP companies acting as judges now then? Can joint owners also tell judges that they won't allow EAs to continue with sale and seizure? Also didn't you say a few posts before that the correct procedure would be for HP companies to issue a Part 85 claim? Poor old HHJ Wulwik.....here was me thinking that hed made a landmark decision but all the time it was the HP companies who had decided that HP cars could not be taken.
Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#21 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 18 May 2017 21:39

JimUk1 wrote:
18 May 2017 20:26
I am personally assisting with two such applications at this present time
Yes...we knew this. Whatever the current debate is at any given time, you always happen to be personally assisting in two such cases at that time.
That line always makes me chuckle. No matter what is being discussed and argued she always, always seems to be dealing with identical cases at the same time. I wonder what sort of service they're getting seeing as she's been posting on there or the blog all day.

The only reason she opposes injunctions is because Jason advocates them. It's been a long road with some errors, but with Judge Wulwick's ruling we can now rest assure that the district judges now have firm guidance. As the chimp says, most of these judges aren't even aware of p85....... I'll leave that sentence there.
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#22 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Schedule 12 » 19 May 2017 00:00

They oppose injunctions? that gives me a whahay moment...
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#23 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 20 May 2017 22:07

Now that was fun. I was surprised the FMOTL insult took so long to appear. Reckon it shocked them when I started quoting from the transcript - there's a few 'untruths' posted by Petey that I might revisit. Ah well, early night for me, more arguments to win tomorrow no doubt. Goodnight John-Boy.
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#24 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Schedule 12 » 20 May 2017 22:32

There goes the FMOTL card again. We are all secret Jehovas Witnesses. There's no point arguing. He got it wrong with hire purchase and it's costing someone £150 a day and counting.

I see that hello-there Honeybee put the bye-bye-there on the thread. Er, fortuitous?? Someone needs a dictionary for Christmas. A sheltered life won't earn a GCSE in English at school.
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#25 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 20 May 2017 23:04

It was DX who closed it.
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#26 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Schedule 12 » 21 May 2017 08:33

All the same. Another flame war. Another locked thread. Not the first time over regulation 13.
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#27 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Amy » 21 May 2017 09:45

Why is it ok for her to have access to "highly confidential" information and for her to report on it, but it's not ok for anyone else to either be in possession of the "highly confidential" information or to report on it...?

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#28 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 21 May 2017 09:53

Because she's a feckin' idiot.
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#29 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Amy » 21 May 2017 10:02

In the interests of reporting truthfully, I think she should say how she came by this "highly confidential" information.

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#30 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 21 May 2017 10:09

We already know. She was posting the details back in February.
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#31 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Amy » 21 May 2017 10:26

True, but that's not the point is it. I thought she was all about honesty, so she should say how she came by this "highly confidential" information.

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#32 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Pote Snitkin » 21 May 2017 11:20

And also why she was passing on to the chimp and the Oddballs.
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#33 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Schedule 12 » 21 May 2017 13:08

The ICO ought to know this because they are taking an action for processing data without registration. Can you email me anything that shows she passed case information to the chimp and the odds?

As far the latest case goes, the appeal is straightforward. A district judge made an order the claim was an abuse and awarded costs in the small claims track. The claimant brought the claim under a statutory right and the defence was economical with the facts and legislation - akin to the Jerome Rogers suicide case when the fact the deceased was a fraud victim to the sum of nearly £1500.



The appeal against the judgement rests on whether fees by themselves carry an enforcement power after the debt has been paid. District Judge Carr says they do, but his transcript does not explain why.


The circuit judge on appeal must decide the following...


What Parliament intended by "money taken in exercise of the power" in Para 50(1)(b) of Schedule 12.
  • My opinion is money taken by bailiffs from the debtor.

    Bailiffs say it is money paid to the creditor in discharge of a statutory liability or order.



Whether "fees" and "costs" are the same.
  • My opinion is "fees" are the fees prescribed in the 2014 fees regulations. Costs are expenses paid for taking control of goods and selling them to create "proceeds" under paragraph 62 of Schedule 12, in particular, 62(5) "enforcement related services".

    Bailiffs say "fees" and "costs" mean the same and the the expressions "fees" and "costs" are interchangeable.



Defining what "proceeds" are.
  • My opinion is money raised from the sale of controlled goods.

    Bailiffs say "proceeds" is money given to the creditor in discharge of liability.





As with Hire Purchase, the trolls are silent following two proceeding saying there is no beneficial interest in hired goods. I can see someone hiding CAG threads again when the court makes the correct finding based on all the facts.
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#34 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by JimUk1 » 22 May 2017 15:04

Why is that Whitely fella debating with two such wazzocks. I Presume that Dodgeball character is the Chimp that all of you are referring to??????

I Laughed out loud when that bailiff advice character said that the Taking Control of Goods Regulations stand alone. Of course they chuffing do thats why they have they own title. Did a judge really say that??????? 5 pages and we finally discovered that a set of regulations stand alone..... Wait till next weeks episode..... Same time.....same place.....same website.

I Always said that I'll not go down pit.....sometimes I reckon there's more sense spoke by folk down pit than ever there is in these courts of ours. Stand alone regulations ?????? They will be claiming Lancashire is the stand alone cricket team next.

Arl see thee

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Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#35 Re: Newlyn debtor commits suicide.

Post by Schedule 12 » 22 May 2017 15:55

They take the pessimist view and ignore the successful outcomes. It's sour grapes and they both had their ego's seriously dented over the hire purchase fiasco.

Cases that don't reach court I also call a success. Today alone, I've given out an injunction against Sheriffs Office for repeatedly pestering a director at home for a Ltd company debt. In another case, recovered £10,537 from an another HCEO company because the writ was someone else's and the judgment was expired under section 24 of the Limitation Act. As you can see, cases don't always involve lifting cars. I've saved my clients over £24K just today and I'm not even done yet. A client is waiting.
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