Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Stop or Suspend Enforcement. Appeal the PCN. Claim Damages for Unlawful Interference with Vehicles.
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#1 Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 23 Apr 2017 17:03

Hi,

I received a letter last Thursday (20/04/17) from Bristow and Sutor enforcement agents.It was a NOTICE OF ENFORCEMENT for an unpaid PCN that I was completely unaware of. They sent me a bill for £408 to be paid by the 22nd Apr 2017. Obviously I was shocked as I had absolutely no idea what it was for. When I rung them they told me that the traffic offence was committed on the 26th Sept 2016 and that they had been sending me letters and visits have been to my property which was my old address. They said that, "it was passed to court" on the 16th Feb 2017.

I had forgotten to update my address with the DVLA hence all the correspondence was going to my old address and I admit that was my fault. But I have been suffering from a few mental health issues since last year so I guess updating my records with the DVLA was not high on my list of priorities. In fact,
the day I got the letter from them, I had literally just returned (with my brother) from an appointment for a mental health assessment.

I'm unemployed at the moment (but not any any benefits) and don't have that sort of money. I offered to pay them the initial £98 PCN from the council, they refused. I then asked if I could have a discount and they refused. I was incredibly upset at this point so my brother took over the phone and tried to explain to them that I have mental health issues and that we had literally just come back from a mental health assessment at the local hospital and asked them if I could pay half the amount out of goodwill but they declined the offer. They said that there was nothing they could do unless they had instructions from the council to not chase this debt but they gave me a further week to 'buy' me more time. They gave him a number to ring which turned out to be completely wrong!

My brother then rung up the Council that issued my PCN and explained to them my situation and they said that there was nothing they could do unless Bristow and Sutor referred the debt back to the council but said that I could ring the Bristow and Sutor and ask them to fill out a vulnerability form.
He did ring them back but there is no such form available but it has been marked on my account that I'm vulnerable. They then gave me another week to 'buy' me more time so now I have until the 4th May 2017 to pay this debt.

I'm running out of time and I'm unsure what my rights are.

On the NOTICE OF ENFORCEMENT it says it was issued on the 12th Apr 2017.

It says that I owe Gloucestershire Council £98

Warrant issued on 16th Feb 2017

Compliance stage fee £75

TOTAL sum outstanding £408

I've done a few calculations and it looks as if they've added the Enforcement stage fee of £235 already but is NOT printed on the NOTICE OF ENFORCEMENT 'bill' under the Compliance stage fee. But if I've understood this correctly, the notice of enforcement means that they've NOT actually paid a visit yet. That's why I originally had until the 22nd Apr 2017 (the date has been extended until 4th May 2017 now) before the Enforcement stage where they shall send out their bullies sorry I meant 'enforcement agents' out to my property.

I would really appreciate if someone could give me some advice please. I'm really stressed and upset about the whole situation. Do the charges sound about right? PLEASE HELP!!!!!!

Thanks in advance :)

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#2 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 23 Apr 2017 17:09

Sorry I've just noticed a mistake. I meant to say,

That's why I originally had until the 22nd Apr 2017 (the date has been extended until 4th May 2017 now) TO PAY before the Enforcement stage commences, where they shall send out their bullies sorry I meant 'enforcement agents' out to my property.

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#3 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 23 Apr 2017 18:11

You appeal the PCN with the Traffic Enforcement Centre. Here is how to do it. http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/St ... ailiff.htm

Your grounds are:
  • The address on the warrant is wrong, but a bailiff company under its own motion perform trace action and located a new address with intent to take an enforcement step there in breach of Paragraph 7(1) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. This is also a breach of CPR 75.7 because the enforcement company failed to allow the council to re-apply for a warrant with the defendant's correct address.
Once the appeal forms have been completed and returned, the enforcement stops at 4pm the same day.
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#4 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 24 Apr 2017 00:10

Thanks for your reply Jason. Would I still be able to do that if the Council has already passed the debt on to the bailiffs? I don't even know my PCN number as all the correspondence went to my previous address. Also, would it be possible to appeal the PCN even though it was my fault that I had forgotten to update my address details with the DVLA?

Thanks :)

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#5 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 24 Apr 2017 09:00

The council can give you the PCN number if you give the car registration.

If you forget to update DVLA, that does not make good the enforcement action. It fails because CPR 75.7 says what councils must do when a change of address is discovered.
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#6 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 24 Apr 2017 15:57

Okay. Thanks for your reply Jason :)

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#7 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 26 Apr 2017 08:27

I've been advised to make a statutory out of time declaration by the TEC but Im not sure if they knew all the facts when speaking to them. Because of my mental health issues, That would have more 'weight' to it along with evidence from my GP. The first time I knew anything about this PCN was 20 April 2017 (when I received a letter from the bailiffs at my new address) but the traffic contravention was back in 26 September 2016 and because I had moved, the PCN was sent to my old address. But don't I have to make this out of time declaration within 21 days??

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#8 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 26 Apr 2017 10:49

The TEC are not concerned about mental health. It's about appealing the traffic convention. In this case, the address is wrong, so the TEC will roll back the PCN to the Notice to Owner (NTO). You can make a late appeal more than 21 days because the bailiff skipped CPR 75 and attended your new address by surprise without giving a Notice of Enforcement and failed to allow the council to re-apply for a fresh warrant from the TEC under CPR 75.7

The bailiff cuts corners, and you caught them.

Mental health issues only come in when enforcement action is instructed. The confrontational nature of schedule 12 enforcement requires guidelines to be followed with vulnerable debtors.
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#9 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 26 Apr 2017 16:48

They haven't made a visit to my new address yet but i had received the letter of enforcement on the 21 april 2017. The first time I new about this PCN debt.

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#10 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 26 Apr 2017 17:26

When I email the Statutory out of time declaration back to the TEC do I also have to write a letter to go with it or not?

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#11 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 26 Apr 2017 18:11

No letter needed. Just attach evidence of your new address and is possible, the date you moved. That should post date the date on the warrant of control. You win.
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#12 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 26 Apr 2017 18:23

Hi Jason,

Do you mean the date that i moved into my new address or the date that i moved out of my new place? I have neither. Oh no! I'm worried now. Also I have discovered that the warrant issued was for my old address not the new one.

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#13 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 26 Apr 2017 18:30

I'm finding the form somewhat difficult to fill out. When they ask me the reasons for filing the Statutory declaration outside the given time, I'm not sure what to put. I keep writing and editing and really not getting much done.

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#14 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 26 Apr 2017 18:31

Oh thanks for your reply regarding the no need for a letter.

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#15 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 26 Apr 2017 21:32

If you don't have evidence of the date of change of address, then the witness statement sworn in will suffice.
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#16 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 27 Apr 2017 06:52

ok thx.

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#17 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 01 May 2017 21:09

I've filed my statutory declaration out of time with at the TEC. Do I need to inform the bailiffs?

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#18 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by Pote Snitkin » 01 May 2017 22:08

No.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#19 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 02 May 2017 19:48

It looks like Bristow and Sutor have already applied the £235 Enforcement Stage fee to my debt. Do they have the right to do this? Only all the corespondence went to my old address. So I never received a NTO or notice of enforcement because it all went to my the old address. Somehow they have managed to track me down to my new address and I received a notice of enforcement from them. The 'invoice' doesn't show the full breakdown of the fees. Just £98 which I owed the council, then £75 compliance stage fee, then total to pay £408 . It looks like they've added the £235 already though it's not printed on the invoice. Are they actually allowed to charge me the enforcement stage fee at this stage?

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#20 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 02 May 2017 19:49

No visits have been made to my new address yet. I've just received a notice of enforcement from them.

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#21 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 02 May 2017 19:50

But I have filed a stat Dec for now.

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#22 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 02 May 2017 20:18

Lets see how your stat dec pans out. Bailiffs cannot take an enforcement step while it is being considered. About 6 to 8 weeks.

I would take no notice of the bailiff until your stat dec has been decided. The fees can be disregarded. Paragraph 8 of Practice Direction 75 of the Civil Procedure Rules.
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#23 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 02 May 2017 21:26

I received confirmation from the council today saying that they've rectmy stat dec out of time and have suspended enforcement action until Northampton court make a decision. But I believe it's the council that decide whether they will accept or refuse my application.

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#24 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 02 May 2017 21:53

The TEC has the final say.
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#25 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 17 May 2017 15:30

My stat dec was refused. No surprise there. My brother has since paid the outstanding amount of £408 for me (I have to pay him back when I'm in employment again). I'm not happy about it as there were a couple of things that didn't seem quite right but I couldn't be arsed to challenge the this anymore as this has had a set impact on my mental health which means that I was stressing my brother out as well (as i turn to him for emotional support). In the end he just wanted them off my back.

I feel gutted about TEC's refusal and I'm not happy to pay such an extortionate amount for something that I was completely unaware of.

I did want to dispute the fees but my brother told me not to bother. I was charged the £235
Enforcement stage fee. But they visited the old address where I had moved out from. The bailiffs have traced me to my new address and I had received a notice of enforcement there. Can someone please tell me whether the bailiffs were right to charge the £235 even though they had visited my old address????

Thanks in advance.

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#26 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 17 May 2017 15:32

Sorry I meant serious impact not set impact.

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#27 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 17 May 2017 15:32

Sorry I meant serious impact not set impact.

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#28 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 18 May 2017 07:58

Can someone please help? I would like to know if I could go down the small claims route. I still want to see if I can fight these scumbag baliffs but I don't know what my actual rights are. That is the problem. I also think that they sent me a fake warrant when I asked them for a copy for one. Where can I go for someone to tell me what my rights are?????

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#29 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 18 May 2017 09:57

You can reclaim the fees in the small claims track because you have sufficient evidence the council did not use CPR 75.7 when the address of the respondent changed, and the bailiff did not give a Notice of Enforcement. That evidence is the address for the respondent is wrong.
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#30 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 18 May 2017 11:36

Hi Jason,
Thanks for your reply. Is that a regulation you quoted, CPR 75.7 and if so where can I find this?
Also do you know whether the bailiffs were correct to charge me the £235 enforcement fee for visiting my old address?? I did receive a NOE when the bailiffs traced me to my new address but have had no visits.

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#31 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 18 May 2017 11:50

The NOE at my new address just stated the £98 which I owed the council plus £75 compliance stage fee. Then the outstanding amount was £408. Looks like they had charged the £235 enforcement stage fee but it is NOT stated on the NOE 'invoice'.

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#32 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 18 May 2017 16:16

coffeepot wrote:
18 May 2017 11:36
Hi Jason,
Thanks for your reply. Is that a regulation you quoted, CPR 75.7 and if so where can I find this?
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/proce ... 5#IDAGQ0HC

And these are the practice directions. https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/proce ... /pd_part75

Also do you know whether the bailiffs were correct to charge me the £235 enforcement fee for visiting my old address??
It fails. The bailiff did not attend your address.


I did receive a NOE when the bailiffs traced me to my new address but have had no visits.
Too late for that. The bailiff cheated by going behind the law and tracing you.

When the bailiff discovers your new address, he should have alerted the authority and they issue a fresh warrant and a current NOE. The bailiff jumped straight to enforcement. You do not owe any fees at all. Regulation 3 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014. The bailiff breached paragraph 7 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.

Just pay the council and that will kill the enforcement power under paragraph 6(3)(a) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.
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#33 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 19 May 2017 07:39

Hi Jason,
Thank your reply. Would you mind taking me to the bit where it shows: Regulation 3 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014. The bailiff breached paragraph 7 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act
2007.

Sorry I did try looking for it but couldn't find it. It's somewhat hard using my phone as my laptop has broken.

Just do you know, when I rung up the bailiffs on the day that I received the NOE at my new address they did say a visit had been made to my old address.

Also if I go down the small claims route, do you think I have a strong enough case? Only I had admitted to the council and the bailiffs (I know I shouldn't have but I didn't know whom I was dealing with at the time) when I had rung them up on the day I had received the NOE that I hadn't updated my address with the DVLA. Because they both know this (and conversations are recorded) I guess that they will use that against me. So I'm not sure if I actually I have a case here if at the end of the day the reason why I never received any correspondence regarding the PCN was because I didn't update my address with the DVLA so it is actually my fault. That's why I'm not sure if I have a strong argument/case here. Would appreciate your thoughts. Thank you :)

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#34 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 19 May 2017 08:48

Also when I said that "conversations are recorded," I meant that The bailiffs have recorded the phone calls that I've made to them.

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#35 Re: Bristow and Sutor Bailiff letter. HELP!!!!

Post by coffeepot » 19 May 2017 15:09

If anyone else could offer their advice it would be greatly appreciated.

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