OOT wording (PE2/3)

Stop or Suspend Enforcement. Appeal the PCN. Claim Damages for Unlawful Interference with Vehicles.
Post Reply
mookle
Posts: 7
Joined: 15 May 2017 14:38

#1 OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by mookle » 15 May 2017 15:02

Hi all,

First off, thanks in advance for any advice. Apologies if this question is a duplicate; I have searched the forums, but I don't know whether the specifics of my situation would change the advice people have received previously...

So, I received a Notice of Enforcement on 11/05/2017 from Marstons acting on Lambeth council's behalf for a PCN dated 09/07/2015. I've spoken to the TEC who have sent me forms PE2/3. The rough timeline is:

??/03/2014 - Moved from address #1 (registered keeper not updated)
??/03/2014 - Moved from address #1 (registered keeper not updated)
09/07/2015 - PCN contravention date
09/02/2016 - DVLA informed of vehicle sale
21/06/2016 - 1st warrant issued to address #1
??/11/2016 - Moved from address #2
09/05/2017 - 2nd warrant issued to address #2

N.B. Address #2 is my parent's place, so whilst I don't live there any more, I do receive the occasional bit of post. Also, I have lived in several places between the two addresses in question, but

Does anyone have any advice regarding the wording/content of the PE2/3 forms given the above? Should I even be pursuing OOT?

User avatar
jasonDWB
Posts: 14756
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 21:23
Contact:

#2 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by jasonDWB » 16 May 2017 15:19

I would go with what you have said in your post.

  • I make a late appeal because on ??/03/2014 I moved from address [GIVE ADDRESS]. On, ??/03/2014 I moved again to [ADDRESS] and I understand the contravention occurred on 09/07/2015 and I did not know at the time. On 09/02/2016 I notified the DVLA of the sale of the vehicle. I now understand a warrant was issued to my previous address [GIVE ADDRESS] on 21/06/2016. On ??/11/2016 I moved to [GIVE ADDRESS#2] and another document was received by me on 09/05/2017 herein Exhibit AA1 when I first learned of the contravention.


Attach a copy of the document sent to your current address and add some evidence of the DATE you moved to your current address, and make sure it pre-dates the warrant.

If you don't know the date of the warrant, call the TEC 0300 123 1059, press 6 to skip the robots, when you speak to homo Sapien, give the PCN number and ask for the DATE the warrant was issued and ask for the ADDRESS of the defendant.
Author, Dealing with Bailiffs. Beat the Bailiffs
Instant phone consultation with me: Click here

mookle
Posts: 7
Joined: 15 May 2017 14:38

#3 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by mookle » 16 May 2017 16:28

Thanks Jason.

I've spoken to TEC, got my head around which dates/facts matter, and the picture is little different than outlined above:

??/03/2014 - Moved from address A (but didn't update registered keeper details)
??/01/2015 - moved from address B (but didn't update registered keeper details)
09/07/2015 - PCN contravention date
09/02/2016 - DVLA informed of vehicle sale
22/02/2016 - moved from address C
15/03/2016 - flew to Canada
21/06/2016 - 1st warrant issued to address A
08/09/2016 - returned from Canada
09/11/2016 - Moved from address D
09/05/2017 - 2nd warrant issued to address D

Hopefully I've not confused matters too much with all those addresses and dates! I really do appreciate any help on unpicking things here.

I can prove my moving dates and flights, but it's reasonable to assume that addresses B and C are unknown to the LA and bailiff due to the lack of registered keeper updates on my end. Address D (23/02/2016-09/11/2016) is actually my parent's place, but I updated my licence address to point there prior to travelling.
jasonDWB wrote:
16 May 2017 15:19
Attach a copy of the document sent to your current address and add some evidence of the DATE you moved to your current address, and make sure it pre-dates the warrant.
The Notice of Enforcement document hasn't been sent to my current address, but to my parents'. Should my first step be emailing the bailiffs to inform them that the address on the NoE is incorrect and await a new NoE at my current address?

User avatar
jasonDWB
Posts: 14756
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 21:23
Contact:

#4 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by jasonDWB » 16 May 2017 17:29

Do not contact the bailiffs. They will mess you about.

Just get the completed forms back to the TEC. Enforcement stops at 4pm on the business day you email them back to the TEC.
Author, Dealing with Bailiffs. Beat the Bailiffs
Instant phone consultation with me: Click here

mookle
Posts: 7
Joined: 15 May 2017 14:38

#5 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by mookle » 16 May 2017 17:52

Understood, thanks.

If enforcement were to recommence, would it be at the address on the NoE or the current address I specify on the OOT statement? I'd rather not have this hanging over my parents' address

User avatar
jasonDWB
Posts: 14756
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 21:23
Contact:

#6 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by jasonDWB » 16 May 2017 18:47

Your parents are okay because the bailiff cannot take an enforcement step against them. They can only enforce where the "debtor usually lives" or "carries on a trade of business". If that address has not been given a Notice of Enforcement, then enforcement fails if the address is neither a place of residence or where you have a business.
Author, Dealing with Bailiffs. Beat the Bailiffs
Instant phone consultation with me: Click here

mookle
Posts: 7
Joined: 15 May 2017 14:38

#7 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by mookle » 16 May 2017 19:44

I appreciate that technically speaking the bailiffs aren't able to do anything, but it won't necessarily stop them trying; the mere chance of a visit is giving my parents kittens at the moment, regardless of whether it would be lawful or not.

Either way, thanks. Time to fill some forms in!

User avatar
jasonDWB
Posts: 14756
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 21:23
Contact:

#8 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by jasonDWB » 16 May 2017 19:50

It's not worth the risk for the bailiff. When an enforcement action is brought against a person who is not the debtor, its the creditor that always pays, and they draw the money paid in damages from the bailiff company. They have insurance cover, but creditors claiming on it bumps up premiums. The net result for the bailiff is a day's timeout attending court and paying for legal representation defending the claim.
Author, Dealing with Bailiffs. Beat the Bailiffs
Instant phone consultation with me: Click here

mookle
Posts: 7
Joined: 15 May 2017 14:38

#9 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by mookle » 16 May 2017 19:55

Ah, that makes sense.

A couple of final questions if I may;

- Am I right in thinking that in my circumstance, the "give reason" question for both PE2 and PE3 will be identical? I.e. My answer will be a cut n paste job between the two forms

- The warrant is due to expire on 21/06/2017. Is there any action I should avoid that may reset the warrant's clock? Regardless of the OOT result, what's to stop me simply waiting out the clock and politely telling the bailiffs to jog on?

User avatar
jasonDWB
Posts: 14756
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 21:23
Contact:

#10 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by jasonDWB » 16 May 2017 19:59

Once the PE2 and 3 are lodged, enforcement is suspended. You don't know the grounds of the contravention, so you cannot offer a defence until your accuser (the council) is accusing you of.
Author, Dealing with Bailiffs. Beat the Bailiffs
Instant phone consultation with me: Click here

mookle
Posts: 7
Joined: 15 May 2017 14:38

#11 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by mookle » 16 May 2017 20:42

Sorry, I wasn't clear at all. I should have said; If the PE2/3 are considered, but the OOT SD ultimately refused, then enforcement can resume, no? In that situation, is there anything preventing me from sitting tight for a week or so (probably accruing additional bailiff fees) but then politely telling them to go away once the expiry date has passed?

User avatar
jasonDWB
Posts: 14756
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 21:23
Contact:

#12 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by jasonDWB » 16 May 2017 21:52

If the application fails, the court can make one of two directions.


  • Enforcement continues where it left off.

    Enforcement is cancelled and the council will have to re-start the process all over again.
Author, Dealing with Bailiffs. Beat the Bailiffs
Instant phone consultation with me: Click here

mookle
Posts: 7
Joined: 15 May 2017 14:38

#13 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by mookle » 17 May 2017 15:45

Thanks again.

As an aside, presuming (always the pessimist) that the OOT is refused, enforcement continues, and the bailiff visits my old address before I am able to either settle the debt or submit an N244; can an enforcement fee be applied? I would presume no, as even though I am now aware of proceedings, the warrant behind the NoE does not state my current address. Is that correct?

User avatar
jasonDWB
Posts: 14756
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 21:23
Contact:

#14 Re: OOT wording (PE2/3)

Post by jasonDWB » 17 May 2017 16:32

The bailiff cannot jump straight to your new address for enforcement.

Part 75.7 of the Civil Procedure Rules states:

  • (7) Where the address of the respondent has changed since the issue of the warrant, the authority may request the reissue of the warrant by filing a request –

You are off the hook if the bailiff breaches this by jumping straight to enforcement at your new address. You can even claim damages. It is called indemnity costs, and the bailiff's insurance company pays.
Author, Dealing with Bailiffs. Beat the Bailiffs
Instant phone consultation with me: Click here

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest