Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Quash the Conviction. Revoke the Fees. Claim Damages for Improper Enforcement Action
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javjaffrey
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#1 Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by javjaffrey » 27 Jun 2015 14:32

Hi Guys,

Could do with your help asap.

I had a fine or costs order (not sure which exactly) of £415 imposed by Portsmouth Crown Court for a failed appeal on 17/4/15. I was not means tested when this order was imposed.

I had started a new job and had moved away to Bicester and totally forgot that this was outstanding. Anyhow, now that I'm back in Portsmouth I got a shock out of the blue when I received an orange coloured document from Marston titled removal notice and dated 22/6/15 for an outstanding amount of £725 under a warrant issued by HMCTS (see attachment).

To be entirely honest I wasn't entirely sure what this was relating to, as late last year/early this year I had gone through a very bad patch and had been unlucky to have had several matters in the courts (some which I won but a few were lost) and I had accumulated a substantial amount in fines. I would also like to add that a lot of these fines were imposed after the conclusion of each case, consecutively and no financial mean tests were done on some to determine my means of being able to pay. Anyhow that's a different matter for which I shall be seeking guidance on a different topic.

After much investigation and I managed to trace this 'outstanding amount' to the above mentioned matter and it seems Marston have added a £75 compliance stage fee and a £235 enforcement stage fee - a further £310!

The very same day (22nd) I searched around the house for any further steps notice which may have been sent by HMCTS and also any compliance stage letters sent by Marstons. I found neither and telephoned Marstons and HMCTS to say I had not received any such letters and that this was the first instance of me hearing about this. Both parties were unwilling to help me further - Martons demanding full payment of £725 by Friday of that week and threatening to break into my parents home by force and taking goods - HMCTS just flat out refused to have any dealings instead pointing me in the direction of the bailiffs even when I offered to pay the fine in full.

The following day I telephoned HMCTS and managed to obtain a fine account number (which they were unwilling to provide in the first instance) and was able to make payment in full via their automated system.

The next day (24th) I got a telephone call from the bailiff asking about payment of the remainder of the fine. I had been researching the matter in the meantime and have found your website and forum an invaluable tool. I told him the court fine was paid and I wasn't going to be paying any fees relating to enforcement costs. This seemed to drive him mad and he started yelling and threatening to call a locksmith and the police to gain forced entry.

On 25th I received a letter dated 24th June from HMCTS Central Accounts office stating receipt of the payment and that as there was a warrant of control issued against this account that the payment had been forwarded to the Approved Enforcement Agent to credit against the money owed and also advising me not to make further payments to HMCTS and in future to contact Marstons Group. Later that day the bailiff also turned up banging on the door and after nobody opened the door to him left a red letter titled final notice with a balance due of £310. Also with that letter was a smaller serial numbered card which stated that as I had been willfully trying to evade payment of this account he was going to utilise powers under the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. Schedule 12, Paragraph (B) to enable him to enter the property, BY FORCE, using locksmiths where required, to execute this warrant.

On Friday (26th) evening I sent the following letter to HMCTS Portsmouth, my local MP and a copy for Marstons:

The Court Manager or the Fines Officer
Portsmouth Magistrates' Court
The Law Courts
Winston Churchill Avenue
Portsmouth
Hants
PO1 2DQ

26/06/2015

BY POST AND BY EMAIL

Dear Sir/Madam

FORMAL COMPLAINT

Re: [xxx my name xxx] [Fine Account No: xxxxxxxxx]

I received a document from a company called Marston on 22/06/15 who purported to be acting on your behalf collecting an unpaid court fine of £415.

I paid the sum of £415 to HMCTS and their document was presented in such a manner that it was clearly designed to mislead me into believing I have been ordered by the court to pay your contractors' fees of £75 and a further £235 in ADDITION to the fine, [or that I had a LIABILITY to pay them.]

HMCTS official advice leaflet called EX345, published by the Court Service says on Page 5; they do not charge me for the work enforcement officers do.

The Distress Warrant issued in the Magistrates Court under Section 76 of the Magistrates Courts Act 1980 orders me to pay the amount I was fined, but it does not order me to pay the enforcement contractors fees and if a person executing the distress warrant makes an improper charge, then he commits an offence under Section 78(5) of the Act because Parliament has not approved any such fees payable by a defaulter.

There is no order made by the court that placed a liability on me to pay your contractors' fees. Furthermore, the contractor has not shown any evidence of his disbursements ‘costs’ and so is unable to prove any disbursements for which I am liable. There has been no compliance stage letter sent to me by Marston to aware me of this outstanding fine as per procedure and Marston is unable to provide proof of posting as required by new legislation that came into effect 6 April 2014.

Since the enforcement company state they were working under a contract on behalf of HMCTS, I accepted their document to be truthful and honest with regard to the amount the court had ordered me to pay. Your attention is respectfully drawn to Clauses 10 and 13 of that contract which confirms liability for the payment of fees do not reside with defaulters.

I have NOT been means tested before receiving contact from a bailiff or enforcement officer in respect of this fine and as such, the court is not compliant with court rules being Section 82(3) –(4) of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980 and this letter is a formal complaint to that effect.

Following legal advice, I now understand that:-

a) The terms of the contract called the ‘HMCTS Enforcement Services Contract’, only enable enforcement contractors to deduct sums from the fine recovered, but there is no clause that enables them to obtain money from me.

b) Under Section 38, Schedule 5 of the Courts Act 2003, which prescribes a list of further steps the court can take for the enforcement of unpaid fines. However, it does not provide for the court to make an order against defaulters to pay the fees of an enforcement contractor or other company.

c) All monetary fines are set by the Sentencing Council and there is no legislation that enables a Fines Officer, HM Court and Tribunals Service or an enforcement contractor company to increase the sum I was adjudged to pay and your attention is respectfully drawn to Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

d) Comply with rules s.82(3) –(4) of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980.

For the avoidance of doubt I confirm that:-

a) I am not an agreed party to the HMCTS Enforcement Services Contract and, therefore, I have no contractual obligation under it and the contractual fees remain a matter between HMCTS and the enforcement contractor company under Clauses 10 and 13 of the contract.

b) I have not been ordered by a court to pay the fees of the enforcement contractor or other company.

c) I have not been means tested or assessed as to my ability to pay any fees at all.

d) There is no ‘common law’ liability on me that obligate me to pay the fees of the enforcement contractor.

d) Part 52 of the Criminal Procedure Rules 2013 which supersedes earlier legislation regarding disbursements or ‘reasonable costs’ for distress does not apply in this case because no goods belonging to me have been lawfully distressed upon by the contractor or taken into their control.

e) The magistrate has not made a costs order and there is no sum prescribed in law for the execution of distress warrants, so there are no other sums payable in connection with the execution of the warrant under 52.8(2)(a)(iii). This part does not apply to “fees” of a commercial bailiff company.

I request that all communication between us is made in writing or other durable form so that all parties involved can maintain a paper trail. This is to protect the parties from any misunderstandings that can occur in a telephone conversation.


COMPLAINT RESOLUTION

a) Provide a written list of non-consolidated fines that have been made against me along with their respective amounts, paid dates and name of the sentencing court.

b) Return the case to HMCTS administration and desist enforcement action.

Further, if a costs order has been made against me requiring that I pay the fees of the enforcement contractor or other company:-

c) A copy of the order together with the adjudged amount, any amount paid, the date and the name of the court making the order.

d) Perform the statutory means test.

If you are unable or unwilling to satisfy all this complaint, please clearly mark your response letter at the top with the words FINAL RESOLUTION and I will ask the Parliamentary Ombudsman to intervene.

Please note, that in the absence of the final resolution letter from you within 40 days of today's date or any reply you do make does not specify your Final Resolution, then I will automatically escalate the complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman on the following grounds:

a) Failure to comply with prescribed complaints procedures and I will ask for an investigation into why I was demanded to pay fees, which I have no legal obligation to pay.

b) Exposing me and potentially other defaulters to the risk of unlawful financial loss by providing incorrect information or presenting a letter or a statement as a fact when it is not.

This letter is not a request under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998.


Yours faithfully,



[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Encs:
Copy of enforcement contractors' document dated 22/06/15
Copy of letter from HMCTS dated 24/06/15 confirming payment of fine amount £415 to HMCTS.
Copy of enforcement contractors’ document dated 25/06/15

CCs:
Penny Mordaunt, MP
Marston, [For information only]



Obviously I have yet to hear back from HMCTS or my MP or even Marstons complaints department but in the meantime, where do I stand legally?

I had the Marstons goon come round again today (27th) demanding entry and threatening to call locksmiths and the police to gain entry by force and was sat in his van outside for at least half an hour, repeatedly calling my mobile. My parents were in and got worried when he started mentioning using locksmiths and police to gain entry by force. He left eventually without anyone arriving and shortly after I got a telephone call from another goon who purported to be his manager and explained that they had a distress warrant to enter by force and that I had now until Monday (funny how these ultimatums keep getting changed) to pay this £310 fees. I told him straight that the court fine was paid and therefore the warrant had died. Furthermore I told him I was not going to pay any fees and hung up the phone.

What are my steps now? Is there anything further I should do? I am worried that in the meantime he will try to gain access to the property and I may have to beat him to a pulp which I am worried will land me with criminal charges.

Thanks

Jav
Last edited by Hithard on 27 Jun 2015 18:49, edited 1 time in total.
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#2 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Hithard » 27 Jun 2015 15:33

You didn't receive a Notice of Enforcement so see http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/TC ... tion6.html

You're living at your parents home so I take it that you don't own any property there. if this is the case then there is nothing a bailiff can levy on if they were granted entry. If one was foolish enough to try it then he'll be facing a large bill.
The extortionist from Marstons will try putting pressure on you to pay the fees because they won't be getting any money. Stick to your guns and like the scabs they are will eventually fade away. Marstons are pretty much the dirty end of the stick as far as bailiffs go.

The letter that you have received from the court is a standard template letter. The court is giving you wrong advice. The regulations state;
When the sum is paid to the court the warrant dies. Part 52.8.5 of the Criminal Procedure Rules 2013
Nothing says the court can revive the warrant. If the court gives the money away then that is not a concern for the debtor.
If the law says the defaulter is liable for the fees then the HM Courts online payments and drop box service would require payment of them.
Basically debtors are getting wise to the bailiff fees scam and are opting to pay courts direct which is cutting the crooks out of the loop. The crooks are whingeing because they're not getting paid and are trying it on.
You've paid the amount on the warrant, you have a receipt. That's it.

In view of the above regulations, have a chat with the Parliamentary Ombudsman via their free helpline http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/about-us/contact-us
and see if they can intervene, 0345 015 4033. Do say this is a time-critical matter and an early action and remedy is needed. Let us know their comments and we will see what else is available to you.

Alternatively if you want to shake the excrement off your shoe which is Marstons and can afford it you can deploy pay and reclaim, and that gets them off your back to work and do a recovery in the small claims court. Only as a last resort, this article http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Ba ... claim.html explains how to deploy Pay & Reclaim by clearing the liability and reclaiming it through the courts or an ombudsman.
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javjaffrey
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#3 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by javjaffrey » 27 Jun 2015 17:13

Hi,

Many thanks again for you reply. I just noticed that I've left some personal details on the attachments. Would it be possible to have them removed?

Thanks

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#4 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by javjaffrey » 27 Jun 2015 17:32

I'm sticking to my guns on this and waiting for a reply from HMCTS and my MP. In the meantime I am worried about harrassment tactics being employed by these mugs upon my household which I share with parents and siblings as they are threatened to break in with locksmiths and possibly being assisted by police to do so.

Should I speak to the Parliamentary Ombudsman to determine why the bailiff company is stating that the warrant of control is still active when it should've died with payment of the fine made direct to the court. Also how do I know if it still active or not? Do I ask HMCTS to provide me with proof?

With regard to not receiving the Notice of enforcement, I can follow this up with a sworn affidavit confirming I never received it with a letter before action. But to whom do I address the letter to? The bailiff company or the Secretary of State. And also what I am claiming for because no goods have been taken or levied upon just the £415 which should have gone to the department of justice but transferred to the bailiff company. Also if I pursue this as a small claims will that not effectively make the magistrates fine an unpaid one?

Also with regards to not receiving a 'further steps notice' from HMCTS, do I have to make a sworn affidavit confirming that because if I had then things would not have gone this far and if I do so what will result - the fine being returned to the control of HMCTS or me having to go back to magistrates as I was not means tested?

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#5 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Hithard » 27 Jun 2015 21:11

For the non received NOE do a statutory declaration and send it to the court, also copy in Marstons.

You should also copy in your local MP with the formal complaint, as a 'for your information'
CC in Marstons as well which will let them know you're not rolling over and being intimidated.
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javjaffrey
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#6 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by javjaffrey » 27 Jun 2015 22:00

I see...am I right in thinking that rather than making a statutory declaration to the court about not receiving a 'Further Steps Notice' / 'Collection Order', it is preferable to make the declaration of non receipt of NOE as that would revoke the first visit on (22/6) and all further proceedings by the bailiff and Marstons since, as the regulations have not been complied with. What will happen after I do this?

I have already emailed Marstons (for information only), my local MP and HMCTS with the complaint letter detailed in OP and sent all three parties written correspondence by recorded delivery today.

I came across this letter template https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3un_KT ... lhcVk/edit and not sure if I should've sent this rather than the one I detailed above in the Original Post.

In the meantime, whilst I'm waiting for a response back, I am a bit concerned that Marstons and HMCTS are still claiming the Warrant of Control is still active and have threatened to enter by force with the aid of locksmiths and the police. How do I found out whether it is or not as surely the payment of the order was made direct to HMCTS and therefore the warrant should've died. Is that something I should speak to the Ombudsman about and can I get the court to provide me with a copy?

javjaffrey
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#7 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by javjaffrey » 09 Jul 2015 16:26

So I received the following letter from HMCS regarding the earlier Formal Complaint I sent and its left me confused. They haven't stated whether I'm liable for the bailiff fees or not.

I have no idea what they are saying about my complaint being justified as the complaint was in relation to liability for bailiff fees for a fine account which I have already paid. This account does not relate to another one which I am paying in instalments. The fine was for an appeal which was dismissed. The original sentence was not increased and remained unchanged but I was ordered to pay costs of £415 towards prosecution costs for the appeal.

There is no mention of whether the Warrant of Control still stands and I thought this would've died with the payment of the fine.

Can someone please clarify and what should my response be now? If you have further templates then I am more than happy to pay for access to these.

Thanks
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#8 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Schedule 12 » 09 Jul 2015 17:20

Reply thanking them for chronicalling the history of the fine but that is not what your complaint was about.

Enclose a copy of your original complaint and as a gesture of goodwill, you will give another 14 days to solve your complaint.
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#9 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by javjaffrey » 09 Jul 2015 17:33

Thanks for your reply Jason. Is there a specific format I have to write the letter in? Should I sent a copy to my MP also?

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#10 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Schedule 12 » 09 Jul 2015 21:17

No special format. Just say it. It helps getting your MP onside especially where a civil servant is wilfully refusing to comply with the law or gives misleading advice contrary to parliamentary intention.
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#11 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by javjaffrey » 10 Jul 2015 18:58

So, I have written a reply to HMCTS asking for their Final Resolution and given a timescale of 14 days to reply. I also CC'd my MP to give an update as to what is happening.

I telephoned the Parliamentary Ombudsman to ask whether they can intervene but they told me to exhaust the complaints proceedure which is 3 stages and to consider complaining to the ministry of justice? They also told me that they cannot deal with a complaint without referral from my MP?

I also telephoned the HMCTS number given on the reply letter to ask about a copy of the 'Warrant of Control' that was issued and whether that was still 'live'. The lady I spoke to told me that the warrant was still live and that they are unable to provide a copy of the warrant because the warrant is with Marstons and they have no copy because it is sent electronically to them?!? I then asked to speak to a 'Team Leader' because I was getting nowhere with this person who then also advised me that the warrant was still active and that although I had paid the fine amount equivalent to the fine on the warrant of control that I was still liable to pay the £310 in fees to the enforcement contractor! Is the legislation for this correct?

I am really confused by all of this and really clueless as to who to what to do now. HMCTS have so many different departments that its confusion which department to contact in the first instance. I sent correspondence to the Clerk to the Justices in the first instance but now am being told to address my letter to the 'Area Enforcement Team Leader'. Quite frankly I can't see them being any help at all.

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#12 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Schedule 12 » 11 Jul 2015 07:36

There are no £310 statutkry fees on criminal penaltis. You will have to repeat your complaint three times. Convoluted but it's the rules on how a formal complaint works.

[finfees][/finfees]

Nobody will show a genuine warrant. They know the bailiff company will produce a fake one with their dodgy fees added to it. It's actually a government-company fraud. Even the police are in on it. It only comes unstuck when an unsuspecting MP stumbles upon it after a constituent has complained.
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#13 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by javjaffrey » 17 Jul 2015 16:02

So I received this from my MP who is also chasing the court service about these fees as well as my liability to pay them.
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#14 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by javjaffrey » 17 Jul 2015 16:11

This is the letter I sent in reply back to the court along with sworn affidavits for non receipt of collection order from HMCTS and also for non receipt of enforcement order from bailiffs...just for good measure and to cover loose ends.



The Clerk to the Justices / The Court Manager or Fines Officer
Portsmouth Magistrates' Court
The Law Courts
Winston Churchill Avenue
Portsmouth
Hants
PO1 2DQ

10/07/2015

BY POST AND BY EMAIL
ha-portsmcenquiry@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk
do-pooleenforcement@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk
info@pennymordaunt.com
complaints@marstongroup.co.uk


Dear Sir/Madam

Re: FORMAL COMPLAINT dated 26/06/15

Re: [my name] Fine Account No: [xxxxxxxxx]

Thank you for your letter dated 6th July 2015 chronicling the history of the fine but that is not what my complaint was about. I asked for a reply specifying your Final Resolution.

Please also note that you are incorrect about the outcome of the appeal. The appeal was in relation to a conviction and whilst yes, it was dismissed, the original sentence remained unchanged and an order for prosecution costs of £415 was made. I sought clarification from counsel and enclose a copy of the email reply.

I would also bring to your attention the costs order made by the court has been paid in full and I enclose a copy of a letter dated 24/06/15 from HMCTS confirming payment of £415.

Following legal advice, I now understand that the fines officer did not comply with court rules, namely Rule 52.2 of Criminal Procedures Rules 2014 and Paragraph 37 of Section 97 of the Courts Act 2003, which requires a collection order or a further steps notice to be sent to me at my address prior to issuing a warrant for distress to bailiffs or an enforcement contractor.

On seeking further legal advice I now understand that the bailiffs cannot execute a warrant of control without first having issued an enforcement notice within the prescribed time limit of seven (7) clear working days (excluding Sundays and public holidays) as required under regulation 6 of as required under regulation 6 of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013 and Paragraph 7(1) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. I further aver that Regulation 3 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014 shall apply.

A creditor is responsible for enforcement agents acting on its behalf. This means I am unable to deal with your enforcement company. Their actions remain your legal responsibility. You must settle any differences you have with them.

If you are unable or unwilling to resolve the complaint in full then please clearly mark your reasons statement with the words Final Resolution and I will revert to the Parliamentary Ombudsman and ask they intervene. As a gesture of goodwill I will allow a further 14 days for my complaint to be resolved. In the absence of the final resolution letter from you within this time or any reply you do make does not specify your Final Resolution, then I will automatically escalate the complaint.

I request that all communication between us is made in writing or other durable form so that all parties involved can maintain a paper trail. This is to protect the parties from any misunderstandings that can occur in a telephone conversation.


Yours faithfully,


[My name]

Encs:
1.) Copy of FORMAL COMPLAINT dated 26/06/15
2.) Reply from HMCTS dated 06/07/15 re Formal Complaint from 26/06/15
3.) Copy of email dated 09-07/15 from Wessex Solicitors confirming outcome of appeal from 17th April 2015.
4.) Sworn statement of non-receipt of collection order dated 10/07/15
5.) Sworn statement of non-receipt of enforcement notice dated 10/07/15


CCs:
Penny Mordaunt, MP

For information only

Marston’s
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#15 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by javjaffrey » 17 Jul 2015 16:35

Received a prompt reply back from HMCTS.

Warrant of control requested back by HMCTS from Martons and withdrawn (warrant should have died with the payment anyway and just goes to prove that HMCTS do have the power to bring back fine accounts under their administration)

Apparently it was an 'input error' that resulted in the warrant being issued!! I think the sworn afidavit might have had something to say about that.

So thankfully this whole ordeal seems to have reached the just conclusion.

However, I do not feel like this is a win. I have spent about £20 in sworn declarations and recorded delivery slips as well as some considerable time in the preparation (many thanks to JasonDWB and crew) to achieve this result.

What HMCTS and the bailiff companies are doing is nothing short of daylight robbery and corruption and unfortunately I suspect there are tons of people out there who have or are being mugged off.

There are a number of websites (most probably operated by bailiff companies themselves) that will advise you to pay these fees and will claim you are liable also. The CAB is entirely useless in these kind of matters and will draft up a debt repayment plan instead! It requires specialist advice on civil litigation - something that doesn't come cheap and for a lot of people this is not cost effective from a high street solicitor.

So lucky to have come across this site and am proof that this crooked system can be beat.

Thanks guys!
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#16 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Andy » 17 Jul 2015 18:36

We are not trying to beat the system, we are trying to make it work the way it was intended. I see they are also trying to wash their hands of any wrong doing of their agents.

Well done to you.
2nd Year University Law Student.

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#17 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Schedule 12 » 17 Jul 2015 21:24

You ask HM Court service to pay your damages and ask your MP to intervene again if they don't.

I see HM Court service dismisses the fee schedulet to be Marstons fee schedule. Ad there is no contract between you and Marston, their fee schedule is unenforceable. You can ask them to pay you a sum as a gesture of goodwill since they have made an error of law in their complaint resolution advice letter.

By all means. Make a complaint to Marston about 'their' fee schedule and see if they lie to you and say it's a statutory one.

Marston group advocate that warrant cannot be withdrawn, citing case law. That HM Courts letter contradicts that advice.
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#18 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by javjaffrey » 28 Jul 2015 16:29

Sorry for the late reply. Have been tied up with things.

I intend to write to HMCTS to ask for damage but I am unsure as to how much to ask for and how to word it. Is there a guideline as to how much in damages I can claim in compensation.

Mostly it is my time that has been consumed in having to dispute this with HMCTS as well as the mental anguish and embarrasment of having 'debt collectors' knocking on my door with their threats - all because of mistakes made by their staff in not following proceedure.

I have today received correspondence from my MP who received a reply from HMCTS regarding my fine account. My MP seems to be willing to take things further still. I am unsure what to make of it and post the letters for your perusal and guidance.

Thanks
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#19 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Schedule 12 » 28 Jul 2015 18:47

Complaining to Marston will result in them wriggling and wasting your time and energy. Skip over them and go to the Parliamentary Ombudsman.

Decide how much you want HM court service to pay, or what you want it to do to solve your cxmplaint. THen you ask your MP to implement it.

Remind your MP tp remind HM court service their own advice, the creditor, in this case, HM Court service itself, is responbsible for bailiffs acting on its behalf. Its not up to you to complain to Marston on the Court Service bahalf. Redress is made by HM Court service and they recover it from Marston or their liability insurer.

The exception to that rule, other than a criminal complaint under section 1 of the Magistraees Coiurt aAct 1980, is a Personal Injury Claim. Lawyers need to negotiate with lawyers for the bailiffs insurance company amd reach a settlement.

Use HM Court service own advice : Paragraph 7 of the Taking Control of Goods: National Standards 2014 and print this document. See how they defeat their own advice.

http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/fr ... agents.pdf
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#20 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by SharSpea » 12 Jul 2016 13:48

Hi,
I am currently going through the same kind of situation at the minute and have been looking for some information on where I stand.
I came across this thread but noticed it is dated 2015 do you know if the info is still correct now?
A little background, I had a fine of £150 which was due on the 23rd May however I got my dates mied up and thought it due by June so it was paid on 22nd June via online at gov.uk to the courts, I had received a letter from Marston's with an added cost of £75 for their administration fee, I disregarded this as I thought the fine had been paid and have had no further letters regarding it.
Yesterday a Marston's EO turned up at my property at 7am demanding I pay him £310 and said it had to be paid there and then or he was calling for a removal an to take everything he could (10x the amount due) in goods, I was alone in the house with my 4 kids who were worried to say the least.
he then said he would return at 2pm for the full amount.
I rang the court to ask if they had firstly received my payment and if the account could withdrawn from Marston's, they refused and said there is nothing they can do now. I panicked obviously and rang him to say I couldn't get all the money, to which he started getting quite shirty saying he was on his fir the full amount and if the doors were locked he would be coming in. 2.10pm and another phonecall said he would be returning Friday (15th) for the full amount, I was busy at this time. I then sent a text so I had proof of what I proposed and so I had proof of it rather than a phonecall, requiring a writ from the court and original documents etc to which he replied saying '£150 this Friday and £160 next. Final Offer.'
I work from home being self employed so I don't have a reliable or guaranteed source of income,and had to cancel appointments I had in at 2pm because of all so effectively lost money, he never asked me if I was able to pay just demanded it, I never any kind of paperwork nor did I sign anything and did not receive a letter saying an EO would be attending my property.
Where do I stand? and what action should I take now?

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#21 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Schedule 12 » 12 Jul 2016 14:07

If you have the receipts proving you have paid HM Court service the sum adjudged, and a bailiff threatened you with an enforcement action, then you can apply for an injunction to stop the bailiff taking an enforcement step against you.

The action is brought under Paragraph 66 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 because the bailiff is acting in breach of Paragraph 6(3) of that schedule. The law says the enforcement power conferred under the warrant ceases to have effect when the sum adjudged has been paid.

The "sum adjudged" is the sum you were fined by the court. Section 76 of the Magistrates Courts Act 1980. The bailiff cannot recover their fees using the schedule 12 enforcement procedure after the sum adjudged has been paid.

If you can collate up all your receipts totally the fine proving it has been paid, then contact me for a telephone consultation, and I can refer you to a solicitor to make an emergency application at court.
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#22 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by SharSpea » 14 Jul 2016 01:20

Hi Jason thank you for replying, yeah I have an email receipt as I paid online direct to the HMCT, the payment however was late as I was having extremely financial troubles and unemployed at the time.
I never received any notice of enforcement nor did I see any documentation etc and I am now worried that he will turn on Friday and I will be in on my own with the kids. Can they forcefully gain entry?

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#23 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Schedule 12 » 14 Jul 2016 08:06

Legally no. Reality yes

If they do get funny with you then contact me. We can do something about it. Involves some money changing hands in your direction for breach of paragraph 6 (3) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007
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#24 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Superman_Returns » 16 Jul 2016 10:56

javjaffrey wrote:Sorry for the late reply. Have been tied up with things.

I intend to write to HMCTS to ask for damage but I am unsure as to how much to ask for and how to word it. Is there a guideline as to how much in damages I can claim in compensation.

Mostly it is my time that has been consumed in having to dispute this with HMCTS as well as the mental anguish and embarrasment of having 'debt collectors' knocking on my door with their threats - all because of mistakes made by their staff in not following proceedure.

I have today received correspondence from my MP who received a reply from HMCTS regarding my fine account. My MP seems to be willing to take things further still. I am unsure what to make of it and post the letters for your perusal and guidance.

Thanks

You have a good MP!

I understand that the OP was initially outstanding? Is this correct?

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#25 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Holbims0408 » 02 May 2017 15:46

I know this is an old thread but I found it as having a similar issue with Marstons! In Portsmouth also.

I can't find an email to send the complaint I have written to hmcts. Do you happen to have it still?

Many thanks

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#26 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Pote Snitkin » 02 May 2017 15:48

Which address?
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#27 Re: Magistrates Court Fine Paid but Marstons still chasing

Post by Schedule 12 » 02 May 2017 17:36

No point complaining to HMCTS. You will get a template copy/paste reply letter with factual errors and even quotes a repealed judgment not relevant to the original complaint.


We use it as an exhibit in fee recovery claims in the small claims track to prove Parliament's intention is not what the author avers is a true statement of the law. The quotations are correct. The interpretations are not.

The error is trying to infer there is no difference between statutory fees and the costs of taking and selling the debtor's goods.

The paragraph about Hereford is copied from the HMCTS Hereford Template. This is pasted into correspondence letters even if the complaint is nothing about withdrawing a warrant. Its been repealed anyway but HMCTS has not updated its template. See Hereford Template


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