Collectica advice

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Johnw
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#1 Collectica advice

Post by Johnw » 26 Nov 2015 20:06

Hi everyone i am new to this site so hopefully i will get things sorted . My magistrates fine has gone over to collectica i owe something like 300 out of a fine of 380 . I have had no letters of collectica yet but expect one shortley with the 75 pound costs on it . I no from previous experiance that i will now pay my fine online straight to the courts . All i want to no now is do i have to pay collecticas costs they put on the fine as i no the law changed recentley or so i was told . I no before when i eventually paid my fine off the warrent died .is this still the same now . People r saying if you make a payment online now collectica is paid on a protata or something like that .would be gratefull if some one could advice me on this thanks .

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Andy
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#2 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Andy » 27 Nov 2015 15:43

Legislation doesn't compel the courts to give money raised in fines away to contractors, in fact quite the opposite, the legislation states that all monies collected must be paid to the court officer.

You are not obliged to pay bailiff enforcement fees on criminal penalties because your criminal liability does not extend to civil enforcement fees. That is a separate matter completely. Bailiffs will often try to trick unsuspecting defendants that they are also criminally liable for their fees. However, unless the Magistrate ordered you to pay them, your are not liable.
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#3 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Johnw » 27 Nov 2015 17:57

Thankyou just as i thought am just going to keep paying on line to hmcs and tell the bailiffs were to go

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#4 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Johnw » 17 Dec 2015 17:20

Hi i have paid my fine in full now i owed 250 ajudged and 75 pound on top for bailliffs costs . So now when i have foned collectica they r saying i still owe 75 pound ajudged as the first 75 pound comes off my 250 i paid online . Is this correct and do collectica still have a live warrent . As i said i have paid every penny of the ajudged fine thankyou . Any help would be gratefull thanks

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Andy
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#5 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Andy » 17 Dec 2015 17:34

There used to be a section in the old Criminal Procedure Rules 2014 that said the warrant ceases to have effect on payment of the sum adjudged, that was repealed (wonder why!). However, once the sum has been paid that the warrant was issued for (sum adjudged), then the power that the warrant holds is extinguished, because there is nothing outstanding in respect to the amount it was issued for.

Warrants for criminal penalties do not compel you to pay the bailiff's fees on top of the amount adjudged, there is a reason it is called 'amount adjudged'. If the magistrate did not order you to pay the bailiff fees then you are not obliged to pay them, they cannot force you to pay them. The bailiff cannot legally carry out anymore enforcement action because he no longer has the authority from the court (the warrant).

However, do be aware that the bailiff will stand his ground and show his teeth. Bailiffs rely on members of the public not knowing their legal rights.

Your criminal liability does not extend to civil enforcement fees.
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#6 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Johnw » 18 Dec 2015 16:40

I have telefoned collectica on a few occasions stating that my ajudged fine is paid and have also said the warrent is dead and if any bailiffs attend my property the police will be called for tresspass . Also stating i wish to see the original warrent and not a made up one of collectica . Basically letting them no i will not be a pushover and no the law . So hopefully this will be the end of the matter .

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#7 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Schedule 12 » 19 Dec 2015 08:56

The police won't action a trespass complaint. Only a written complaint of fraud, but the most you can expect is the police telling the bailiff to give it up and seek advice from his firm.
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Johnw
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#8 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Johnw » 20 Dec 2015 21:54

I have a car on my front do they have the right or authority to clamp it if they turn up . I no by your other threads they may try and show a made up warrent but have pictures of a real warrent so am on to that one . Sureilly they must realise they r on a loser and not even bother .

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Schedule 12
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#9 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Schedule 12 » 21 Dec 2015 10:36

If the car is on your driveway, they CAN clamp it. If its is on someone elses land, they CANNOT clamp it.

This is what a warrant of control looks like.

Image


The bailiff must show the warrant on demand. It is his authority to enter premises. Paragraph 26 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 (TCEA 2007) reads:
  • The enforcement agent must on request show the debtor and any person who appears to him to be in charge of the premises evidence of—
    (a)his identity, and
    (b)his authority to enter the premises.
If the bailiff shows a counterfeit warrant, he commits an offence under section 3 of the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981.
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stopbailiff
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#10 Re: Collectica advice

Post by stopbailiff » 21 Dec 2015 20:33

Johnw wrote:I have telefoned collectica on a few occasions stating that my ajudged fine is paid and have also said the warrent is dead and if any bailiffs attend my property the police will be called for tresspass . Also stating i wish to see the original warrent and not a made up one of collectica . Basically letting them no i will not be a pushover and no the law . So hopefully this will be the end of the matter .
If the bailiffs were to stalk/ hassle you, you could cite the section 2 criminal offence of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, to the police.

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#11 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Mark1960 » 21 Dec 2015 20:49

stopbailiff wrote:
Johnw wrote:I have telefoned collectica on a few occasions stating that my ajudged fine is paid and have also said the warrent is dead and if any bailiffs attend my property the police will be called for tresspass . Also stating i wish to see the original warrent and not a made up one of collectica . Basically letting them no i will not be a pushover and no the law . So hopefully this will be the end of the matter .
If the bailiffs were to stalk/ hassle you, you could cite the section 2 criminal offence of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, to the police.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

How dare the bailiffs enforce a debt by legal process?

Why not really push the boat out and ask for a restraining order? :lol:

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#12 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Pote Snitkin » 21 Dec 2015 21:22

Or an injunction...
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#13 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Johnw » 22 Dec 2015 06:01

I do not have a drive but sureily if his warrent of controll is dead how can he legally clamp my car . As said in previous posts bailiffs costs can only be collected on sale of goods and as no goods have been sold so their are no costs . His warrent is dead as my fine is paid in full. Would it not just be the case of asking him to remove his clamp as the fine is paid . Your warrent is dead . Take off the clamp or the police will be called . He must be commiting some type of crime by clamping my car without a valid warrent .

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#14 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Schedule 12 » 22 Dec 2015 09:44

You must ask the bailiff to remove a clamp before cutting it off. Otherwise you would be guilty under section 1 of the Criminal Damage Act.

He can call the police all he likes.
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Steve 1976
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#15 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Steve 1976 » 22 Dec 2015 13:10

Hi,

This is my first time on here,

I have read a lot of posts that say if I was to pay the remainder of the fine direct to the court through the online method then I will not have to pay bailiff fees.

Before I do this and make payment can somebody confirm this 100%?

The bailiff has visited my property twice but has never entered the house, he did take down my vehicle registration and has threatened to remove the vehicle if I do not make payment on or before Christmas eve.

Thank you in advance for all your help

Regards

Steve

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#16 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Schedule 12 » 22 Dec 2015 13:46

Nothing is 100% when it comes to dealing with bailiffs. It is all political skullduggery when it comes to the subject of court fines and bailiffs fees.

[finfees][/finfees]
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#17 Re: Collectica advice

Post by stopbailiff » 22 Dec 2015 15:04

Mark1960 wrote:
stopbailiff wrote:
Johnw wrote:I have telefoned collectica on a few occasions stating that my ajudged fine is paid and have also said the warrent is dead and if any bailiffs attend my property the police will be called for tresspass . Also stating i wish to see the original warrent and not a made up one of collectica . Basically letting them no i will not be a pushover and no the law . So hopefully this will be the end of the matter .
If the bailiffs were to stalk/ hassle you, you could cite the section 2 criminal offence of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, to the police.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

How dare the bailiffs enforce a debt by legal process?

Why not really push the boat out and ask for a restraining order? :lol:
The bailiffs have statutory power which essentially makes them a statutory authority falling within the parameters of public law, in which the rule of law (moral dimension) notwithstanding the scope of intervention wherein the said authority acts outside of their powers (ultra vires). So when Guru uses the terminology 'lawful' it is not technically correct as it more apt for a citizen without a statutory power to stay within the parameters of the law, ergo 'awful rebellion.' If the bailiff were to go out of his or her jurisdiction then it would be ultra vires and without such safeguard citizens in democratic countries with democratic institutions (ie courts) would have their rights suppressed. So, if the citizen were to have paid his debt which renders any warrants dead but the bailiff still harassed the debtor as though his debt were not dead, satisfied, it would in fact be an oppressive action which goes beyond the competence and is more personal and subject to court intervention This is why in the arena of public law there is administration laws (judicial review, Ombudsman et al), to essentially limit the powers of the state, as A V Dicey may say.

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#18 Re: Collectica advice

Post by stopbailiff » 22 Dec 2015 15:05

lawful*

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#19 Re: Collectica advice

Post by stopbailiff » 22 Dec 2015 15:10

Where the state official however with intent stalks a debtor he or she depending on how serious the harassment is has scope for criminal jurisdiction, as this type of conduct is beyond the statutory authority competence and any beyond ultra vires' doctrines. If it is justified to be sufficiently serious to justify a criminal offence then likewise it ought to commensurate with criminal punishment.

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#20 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Steve 1976 » 22 Dec 2015 15:20

Thanks, I think!!

Haha, I think I will risk paying the courts, I started to pay the fine then our circumstances changed and I was no longer able to keep up the monthly payments, I manged £300 of a £560 fine for no TV licence!!!

The amount now with bailiff costs is £570!!

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#21 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Steve 1976 » 22 Dec 2015 15:37

Also out of interest, my daughter has epilepsy which is still not under control with medication so our car is essential to us because of her health issues, the first thing he said he would "just take the car" "you will wake up one morning and it won't be there" (I would love to meet him on a night out)!!! is there anything in place that would stop him seizing or taking our car due to medical needs?

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#22 Re: Collectica advice

Post by stopbailiff » 22 Dec 2015 15:47

Once the debt is paid to the court including all interest/ charges, inform the bailiff company and that should be the end of things. The bailiffs are appointed to collect debts so once the debt has been paid, the relationship between bailiff and debtor is terminated. It's like when a mortgage has been paid off, there is no longer a relationship between mortgagee (usually a bank) and mortgagor (borrower) as the mortgage (Latin: mort = dead; gage = action or deed) has terminated. Bailiff law goes back centuries....just like mortgage law (ie legal and equitable interests) does.

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Andy
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#23 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Andy » 22 Dec 2015 15:50

'Stop bailiff' what on earth are you playing at? I'm a 2nd yeàr law student and it's hard for me to understand what the point in that post was. Knock off the shit with big words normal people don't understand and be normal. Why you have to come in and over complicate a situation is beyond me.

Steve, i must apologise, we don't know who this 'stop bailiff' is or what his/her agenda is. Apparently it is to make a situation more stressful than needs be. Everyone else here will answer any questions you have in a clear and concise way.
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#24 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Steve 1976 » 22 Dec 2015 15:58

Thanks Andy,

I was confused with the original answer hence me saying thanks I think!

Although I do appreciate peoples time as I think they are genuinely trying to help. (I think!) hahaha

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#25 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Andy » 22 Dec 2015 16:15

What was the original fine amount Steve? The sum you were ordered to pay (minus bailiff fees).

In answer to your question, the situation is this, your criminal liability only goes as far as to what the magistrate said you must pay (the fine) this does not extend to civil enforcement fees. The magistrate never ordered you to pay those fees, so your liability only goes as far as the original fine amount.

What bailiffs will do is use a little trick of telling you that your are criminally liable to pay his fees. Otherwise he doesn't get paid.

Once the amount ordered has been paid, your liability as far as the law is concerned is finished, if the bailiff should want his fee then it's down to the small claims track. Here is the problem the bailiff faces though, the bailiff can only recover costs in connection with execution, execution is defined as taking and selling your goods, so if the bailiff hasn't taken and sold your goods, he's not entitled to any money. Simples.
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Steve 1976
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#26 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Steve 1976 » 22 Dec 2015 16:19

Thank you again Andy,

The original was £560 I think it was £500 plus £60 costs,

We managed to pay £300 in installments but then things changed financially and we wasn't able to continue the repayment plan.

the remaining £260 is outstanding which we can pay on the 24th of this month if we have to, ideally I was hoping to restart the payment plan but I don't think that will be possible now.

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#27 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Andy » 22 Dec 2015 16:22

Steve 1976 wrote:is there anything in place that would stop him seizing or taking our car due to medical needs?
In answer to you other point:
Exempt goods

4.(vii)any item or equipment reasonably required for—

(aa)the medical care of the debtor or any member of the debtor’s household;
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013 ... ion/4/made
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#28 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Andy » 22 Dec 2015 16:23

You can go before the magistrate and say you had a change of financial circumstances and ask for more time to pay.

Section 165 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 says:


This section applies where a court has, in fixing the amount of a fine, determined the offender’s financial circumstances under section 164(5).

(2)If, on subsequently inquiring into the offender’s financial circumstances, the court is satisfied that had it had the results of that inquiry when sentencing the offender it would—

(a)have fixed a smaller amount, or

(b)not have fined him,

it may remit the whole or part of the fine.
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#29 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Steve 1976 » 22 Dec 2015 16:33

How would I go before the courts again?

Is there an application I would need to complete?

Also would I have enough time? he says he will return if we don't pay by Christmas eve.

Thanks

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#30 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Andy » 22 Dec 2015 16:44

You will need to attend court, speak to the usher, and ask to go before a Clerk to the Justices. You will have to complete a means enquiry form, so telephone the court and ask for one.

Under Section 85 of the Magistrates' Court Act 1980 the court has power to remit fines where there the defendant has had a change in the financial circumstances.

Under Section 165 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003, the court has power to remit fines where the fine has been imposed without an ascertainment of means.

Regarding the bailiff, I wouldn't be too bothered with what he says. You are not under an obligation to deal with him, regardless of what you are told, if you are told you must, ask what law requires you to, you'll hear the dial tone.

What I would do, is move your car somewhere safe, the bailiff won't care that it is exempt, he will take it anyway. So get it somewhere safe. Do not sign anything the bailiff hands you, you could be setting yourself up to let the bailiff come back one day and kick the door in at 6am. Don't open the door to him, don't speak to him, if he wants to stand out in the cold for 2 hours then let him.
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#31 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Steve 1976 » 22 Dec 2015 17:11

Thank you so much for all your help Andy.

I really appreciate it.

Thanks

Steve

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#32 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Johnw » 22 Dec 2015 19:52

A big thankyou from me aswell to everyone who gives their time to anser people on here and to stand up to theese bully baillifs scum . So thankyou . Sorry for spelling

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#33 Re: Collectica advice

Post by stopbailiff » 22 Dec 2015 23:39

Steve 1976 wrote:Also out of interest, my daughter has epilepsy which is still not under control with medication so our car is essential to us because of her health issues, the first thing he said he would "just take the car" "you will wake up one morning and it won't be there" (I would love to meet him on a night out)!!! is there anything in place that would stop him seizing or taking our car due to medical needs?
Blue Badge (ie for disabled person carried) on a car = exemption

Steve, as your daughter has epilepsy, which is a disability and the local council owes her a duty, under law (Equality Act 2010), your car use is essential for that purpose. It seems to me that on your facts if you were to apply for Blue Badge (or if you have one on the car already), your car should be 'exempt goods' under the law, as below.

Ref: "a vehicle on which a valid disabled person’s badge is displayed because it is used for, or in relation to which there are reasonable grounds for believing that it is used for, the carriage of a disabled person:" Regulation 4 (1 (d)), Taking Control of Goods' Regulations 2013.

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#34 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Amy » 23 Dec 2015 01:15

Applying for a blue badge is not that simple. Steve's daughter would need to be in receipt of higher rate disability in order to apply for a blue badge.

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#35 Re: Collectica advice

Post by Schedule 12 » 23 Dec 2015 10:00

I'm not sure if that's right. My mum has a blue badge but doesn't get any benefits. Financially stable. I act for her under a LPA (Lasting Power of Attorney) and applied through her doctor and filled in the forms online with her council. £10 later she got a blue badge. She can use it on my car as well as her own.

She can drive OK but she can't walk any great length due to deterioration of her hip and ankle joints. There is a medical term for it, but it escapes me.
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