LCCC FSN after Fully PAID FINE

Quash the Conviction. Revoke the Fees. Claim Damages for Improper Enforcement Action
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jaja
Posts: 7
Joined: 18 Dec 2016 15:46

#1 LCCC FSN after Fully PAID FINE

Post by jaja » 18 Dec 2016 16:11

Hi everyone.

Could someone please advise me.

I was fined £385 in feb 2015 for a minor criminal charge. (£25 per month)

8 months later I had fallen behind by 2/3 monthly payments and I called the courts to
repay the full amount as I was going travelling for 3 months. (£160).

The court told me that Collectica had the debt and to contact them. I did and they told
me I had to pay them £315 !!!! I politely declined.

After research on the net I realised I could bypass collectica and I fully paid off my fine
directly to the court.

Now Dec 2016 I have received a Further Steps Notice from LCCC saying I owe £154 and I have
ten days to appeal but the letter was dated 1st Dec and I received it on the 14th!



Please can someone give me an idea of how i should structure and content my first email to
LCCC. I have copies of all the payment receipts, should I send these?


I am about to go travelling again for 3 months and am worried about getting stopped at the
airport (is this possible??) or getting a court date while I am away. (I wont have access to my
post-mail while I am away)


Thank you in advance!

Jay

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jasonDWB
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#2 Re: LCCC FSN after Fully PAID FINE

Post by jasonDWB » 19 Dec 2016 10:43

If you are going away then Collectica has a fat chance of collecting anything. Just pay the thing online and leave it there.

If you want to play a card. If you had a change of circumstances, then Section 85 of the Magistrates' Court Act 1980 gives the court power to remit fines where there the defendant has had a change in the financial circumstances. It states;
  • 85 Power to remit fine.

    (1)Where a fine has been imposed on conviction of an offender by a magistrates’ court, the court may at any time remit the whole or any part of the fine, but only if it thinks it just to do so having regard to a change of circumstances which has occurred—

    • (a)where the court is considering whether to issue a warrant of commitment after the issue of such a warrant in respect of the fine has been postponed under subsection (2) of section 77 above, since the relevant time as defined in subsection (4) of that section; and

      (b)in any other case, since the date of the conviction.
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jaja
Posts: 7
Joined: 18 Dec 2016 15:46

#3 Re: LCCC + Marstons after Fully Paid Fine

Post by jaja » 23 May 2017 21:27

Hello Bailiff Help Forum..!

I would really love some advice from you.. !

Returning to my original post above.. I have been out of the country feb/mar/april this year
and I have been a little concerned about this Collectica fee that the LCCC are pressing me for.

I initially followed your advice of paying my whole fine online (22 Feb 2016) to the courts and that this would render the warrant
dead. However many other sites and forums state that this is definitely not the case and that this will not go away i.e there will eventually
be a warrant out for my arrest due to non payment of fines.

So I decided to enter into communication with the LCCC with the intention of paying this fee of £154. I was however out of the country
and was not receiving an income so I was asking about paying by instalments but they (LCCC) have consistently responded to my emails
with very vague information, they didn't answer my request to pay them by instalments and have now passed this 'Collectica' fee to Marstons.

They say that Marstons are not enforcing at the moment because i sent LCCC proof that i have been out of the country but that was about
2 weeks ago.

To add to this I have had 2 FSNs (Aug 2015 + Nov 2016) but the first I never received as I had moved address (and actually the courts always had an incorrect address for me even though I told them many times the correct one) and the second one(Nov 2016) I did not receive as I was not at that address either although I did see the FSN in January 2017.

If I had the money I would have just paid but I am not in the best of situations right this moment, I am unemployed and do not have an address after returning from 3 months travel. I do not want Marstons to start adding more fees and I do not want to enter into any communication with them if
i do not have to.

P.S. I sent Collectica an email informing them that the adjudged fine has been fully paid off to the courts in Feb 2016 (your template) and have just
sent that same template to Marstons and Collectica again and with proof of payment to the courts.

Below is my email correspondence with the LCCC over the past 6 months.

Do I need to pay them and should I worry that this £154 is going to turn into £554 over the next few months?

Thank you in advance!

Jac


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------emails to LCCC---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: jac axe
> Sent: 19 December 2016 22:19
> To: LCCC Collection Unit
> Subject: Account Number ---
>
>
>
> Dear Sir/Madam,

> I am writing in regards to a court fine issued on 19th Feb 2015 to
> myself ...
>
> I would like confirmation of the following:
>
1. Please provide the adjudicated fine figure applied

2. Please confirm that this amount has now been paid by myself (payed using the
> London Collection and Compliance Centre automated phone payment system
> and online via - https://courtfines.direct.gov.uk/) and correctly
> allocated. (Account No:-----)

3. Can you please confirm if a Warrant Of Control was issued in regards to this case?

4. If a Warrant of Control was issued, I request to be provided with a copy of this.
>
> Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jac

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 9:44 AM
> From: "LCCC Collection Unit" <LCCCCollectionUnit@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk>
> To: "'jac axe'"
> Subject: RE: Account Number - ------

Morning Mr Axe
>
> Thank you for your E-Mail.
>
> I have looked into your query and can inform you that you have an Outstanding balance of £154.50. The Warrant of Control (DW) was issued back in October 2015, which we don't have a copy off. You was aware of this as you were informed of this when you called the Collection Office in February 2016.
>
> Any payments made after the DW was issued would off been passed onto the Bailiffs from us, and their Fees would be collected from that and can inform that £80.50 was passed back to us from Bailiffs.
>
> If you can call the Collection Team on 020 7556 8500 to arrange a Time to Pay.
>
> Kind Regards
>
>
> Steve Knox
>
> National Compliance and Enforcement Service Officer
>
> Steven.Knox2@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk<mailto:Steven.Knox2@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk>


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ________________________________
> From: jac axe [
> Sent: 12 January 2017 00:49
> To: LCCC Collection Unit
> Subject: Re: RE: Account Number------
>
>
> Hi Steve.
>
> Thank you for the reply.
>
> Please could you explain why I owe £154.50 and to whom I owe it to and for what?
>
> As far as I know, I have fully paid the amount adjudged by the court -
> to the court directly and before the deadline I was given to pay.
>
> I do not understand why the amount above is still outstanding.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jac

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 8:21 PM
> From: "LCCC Collection Unit" <LCCCCollectionUnit@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk>
> To: "'jac axe'"
> Subject: RE: RE: Account Number - -----

Good afternoon Mr Axe
>
> Thank you for your enquiry.
>
> The balance remains at £154.50 due to the fact that the account had to be sent for enforcement.
>
> Prior to your payment agreement in August 2015, you were issued a Further Steps Notice (FSN) which was our reminder that you need to ensure payment is made. This letter clearly outlines our enforcement procedures for non payment.
>
> On 04/08/2015, you agreed to begin a payment plan of £25.00 per month with your first payment due by 23/08/2015.
>
> The first payment was received on 01/09/2015. Even with delays in bank transfers, this payment was made after your deadline.
>
> As of 23/09/2015, we still only had one payment (which already had been flagged for being late) and now the account was late again.
>
> When there was no payment on 23/10/2015, the systems enforced the
> account for non payment (now being 2 months in arrears, 3 months of
> late payment)
>
> From this point, any payment made would have been forwarded to the enforcement agents and we issued a letter advising of this for each payment on 26/10/2015, 04/12/2015, 16/02/2016 and 22/02/2016.
>
> All payments made were forwarded and the agents deducted their fees. As a result, the balance sent to us had a difference of £154.50 to be paid.
>
> On 18/10/2016, the enforcement was returned to us as the agents were no longer able to contact you. We located your new address and issued another FSN to you on 30/11/2016 to resolve the outstanding balance.
>
> We look forward to you completing your obligation to the court by setting a payment plan to finish paying this fine as we do not want the matter to be sent to another set of enforcement measures.
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Gregory Affonso
>
> Designated Fines Officer
>
> LCCC


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ________________________________
> From: jac axe
> Sent: 25 February 2017 18:18
> To: LCCC Collection Unit
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: Account Number -------
>
>
> Hello Gregory,
>
> Thank you for the email.
>
> I would like to inform you that in August 2015 I was not living at Kent Rd.
> I had moved out at the end of April 2015 and indeed the
> courts/probation never had my correct address as I had never received any mail at all from anyone concerning this court appearance.
> I had told the probation 3 times my correct address but it made no difference.
>
> This means I did not receive the FSN in August.
>
> I had given my new address to the courts (33 East
house) but I did not receive any of the letters advising me that my payments were being given to a third party.
>
> The FSN that you state was sent to me in Nov 2016 did not reach me
> also as I had moved from this property 1 month earlier.
>
> I feel that this extra charge is highly unfair and ultimately I had
> paid my fine off totally before the time given to me by the court.
>
> As I didn't actually receive any FSN I would like to dispute the additional fees you are stating .
>
> Yours,
> Jac


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 at 5:40 PM
> From: "LCCC Collection Unit" <LCCCCollectionUnit@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk>
> To: "'jac axe'"
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: Account Number -----
>
> Dear Sir,

> This unit cannot enter into correspondence regarding your conviction. If you wish to dispute the matter you must contact the Highbury Corner Magistrates Court or take independent legal advice.

> their contact details:0207-506-3100/3147.
>
> Enforcement has been held for 28 days but will continue after that date if the debt remains unpaid and we are not told by a court that an appeal has been lodged, an application to re-open the case or make a statutory declaration has been listed or any other relevant challenge has been made.
>
>
> Yours faithfully,
>
> R.Pinkrah
> LCCC
> Designated officer
>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> ________________________________
> From: jac axe
> Sent: 02 March 2017 17:10
> To: LCCC Collection Unit
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: Account Number ------
>
>
> Dear R.Pinkrah,
>
> I, at your insistence, would accept to pay the amount you state is
> outstanding however I am studying abroad at the current time with no
> income. Could you please advise me if I can pay by installments or if i can make an agreement to pay by the end of April when I return to the uk.
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Jac

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 at 1:15 PM
> From: "LCCC Collection Unit" <LCCCCollectionUnit@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk>
> To: "'jac axe'"
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: Account Number -----
> Dear Mr Axe
>
> Thank you for your email. We will not be able to hold the account beyond the 28 days, and would not be able to guarantee further enforcement will not continue. If you are studying abroad, you can provide us with proof of the date you left and a copy of enrolment papers so we can update our records.
>
> Kind regards
> Yvonne Mark
> LCCC Fines Officer
> HMCTS
>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> From: jac axe
> Sent: 28 April 2017 14:25
> To: LCCC Collection Unit
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: RE: Account Number---
>
>
>
> Dear Yvonne,
>
> I am back in the UK and would like to know how i can clear this debt.
>
> Please can you advise me.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jac

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2017 at 12:13 PM
> From: "LCCC Collection Unit" <LCCCCollectionUnit@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk>
> To: "'jac axe'"
> Subject: RE:A/C No.-----

Dear Sir
>
> Thank you for your email.
>
> I acknowledge receipt of your request for further time to pay on your account.
> Your application cannot be dealt with by this office as the time available for this has now expired and the account has been passed to bailiffs to collect the outstanding balance £154.50 . You will also need to pay their fees.
> You must now contact the bailiffs to arrange payment. Their contact details are:
>
> Collectica Bailiffs
> Collectica,
> PO box 997,
> Doncaster,
> DN1 9GD
> Tel: 0844 800 4588
>
> You must contact the bailiffs immediately to keep any further costs to a minimum that will be charged by them. Whilst the account is with the bailiffs for collection this office is unable to assist with further enquiries and is unable to stop bailiff action.
>
> As you state in your previous email that you were abroad,we will need proof to show when you left the country to be able to decide to withdraw this account from the enforcement agent.
>
> Due to the time elapsed from your court date, your account has been passed to Marston Enforcement Services; however, the enforcement agents have been placed on hold for 28 days for you to provide proof.
>
> Please note that further enforcement action will continue to be taken to recover this amount until notice is received by this office from the convicting court of any changes to this order.
>
> If you have any other enquiries, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Alberta Poku
> Designated Fines Officer
> London Collection and Compliance Centre HMCTS - London


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ________________________________
> From: jac axe
> Sent: 11 May 2017 23:28
> To: LCCC Collection Unit
> Subject: Re: RE:A/C No.-----
>
> Hi Alberta,
>
> Could you please explain your previous email to me?
>
> Is my account with Marstons right now or they have been placed on hold
> for 28 days to allow me to provide proof of being out of the country?
>
> I was in Cambodia from 15th January 2017 ---- 26th April 2017.
> The purpose of my journey was to complete some study online as I am
> training to be a web developer.
>
> I have attached my flight ticket receipt for you to view.
>
> Yours,
>
> Jac

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 at 11:10 AM
> From: "LCCC Collection Unit" <LCCCCollectionUnit@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk>
> To: "'jac axe'"
> Subject: RE: RE:A/C No.----
>
> Good morning Jac
>
> The account is with Marstons. They are not enforcing at the moment but you need to contact them directly to discuss the account.
>
> I have forwarded the information on to them for you.
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Gregory Affonso
>
> Designated Fines Officer
>
> LCCC


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: jac axe
Sent: 15 May 2017 22:12
To: LCCC Collection Unit
Subject: Re: RE: RE:A/C No.----

Hi Gregory..

Can I please ask why you would have forwarded my information to Marstons?
I sent information for LCCC to view.. not a dubious 3rd party private debt collection agency.

Could you please tell me why you have sent this fee (originally charged by collectica) to another debt collection agency who are going to add another large fee for doing nothing when I have fully paid my fine that the courts ordered me to pay..

and, on the 2nd of March I offered to partially pay this extra fee to LCCC or set up installments or arrange a fixed date to pay when I returned as I was out of the country without a wage.


On the 3rd of May you wrote...

"Due to the time elapsed from your court date, your account has been passed to Marston Enforcement Services; however, the enforcement agents have been placed on hold for 28 days for you to provide proof.'


I have provided the proof so why has this not changed anything? Or has it changed something?

In the same email you state that I need to contact Collectica to arrange payment but also that my account is with Marstons and I need to contact them to arrange payment!

This is very confusing and I am very upset with all this because I have fully paid the fine the judge ordered me to pay and I payed it off before the total amount of time the judge had set for me to pay.

Please can you explain all this to me.

Regards,

Jac


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 10:05 AM
From: "LCCC Collection Unit" <LCCCCollectionUnit@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk>
To: "'jac axe'"
Subject: RE: RE: RE:A/C No. ----

Good morning Mr Axe

The flight information was passed to Marstons (Collectica is a subsidiary of Marstons) to show that you were out of the country while they were attempting to enforce the fine.

In January when I last wrote to you, I explained the timeline of events that the account had taken. At that point you never mentioned that you were leaving the country. Considering the cost to travel to Cambodia, we are left to question why you failed to inform us of this development. You then left, without making any payment arrangements. The account has remained unpaid for several months, and you were advised in March (when you eventually told us that you were abroad) that you needed to set a payment plan as we could not hold the account until your return. The account was enforced in February after my email from 19/01/2017.

The enforcement remained on hold while you were abroad and we have now shown the agents that you were in fact in Cambodia, but you are now back.

As previously mentioned by other colleagues, your account was sent to enforcement previously in October 2015 when you believed you paid in full. It was explained that they deducted their fees and the fine remained unpaid.

You also mentioned that you had moved address in April 2015 and all correspondence was not received. This remains an error in your judgement as you were paying in February and March 2015, but once you moved, you failed to provide us with your correct address to keep in contact with you. The responsibility to keep up payments as well as keep us informed of your current address remains solely with you and the failure to do so resulted in your fine being enforced and accruing fees.

Unfortunately, the account remains with the agents and you need to arrange with them to pay the fine, including any more fees that may have accrued.

Kind regards



Gregory Affonso
Designated Fines Officer
LCCC


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jac axe
Sent: 19 May 2017 20:32
To: LCCC Collection Unit
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE:A/C No.-----

Hello Gregory,

Thank you for all this information.

You state in this last email that -

"The account has remained unpaid for several months, and you were advised
in March (when you eventually told us that you were abroad) that you needed
to set a payment plan as we could not hold the account until your return."

I cannot see this in any email from the LCCC.


However, on the 2nd of March 2017 I wrote asking -

"I, at your insistence, would accept to pay the amount you state is
outstanding however I am studying abroad at the current time with no
income. Could you please advise me if I can pay by installments or if i can
make an agreement to pay by the end of April when I return to the uk."

I made a request to set up a payment plan with yourselves and you did not
respond to the question.


I feel this to be very unfair. I could have made installments when I requested
this from Cambodia and could have avoided the extortionate charges Marstons
will no doubt be excited about adding to my name.


Why should a third party private company be profiting when I have tried to
arrange payment with LCCC?


Regards,


Jac


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 at 4:08 PM
From: "LCCC Collection Unit" <LCCCCollectionUnit@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk>
To: "'jac axe'"
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE:A/C No. ---

Dear Mr Axe

Further to your email below, I have attached the response we sent you (on 6th March 2017) to respond to the email you sent us on 2nd March 2017. As advised below you must liaise with the enforcement agents to regarding making payment. These agents were instructed as you did make a payment arrangement within the requisite timeframe.

Yours sincerely

W Rhind
Designated Fines Officer
London Collection & Compliance Centre


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jac axe
Sent: 23 May 2017 18:32
To: LCCC Collection Unit
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE:A/C No---


Hello W. Rhind,

Thank you for the reminder but I am aware of all the correspondence between yourselves and I.

In the email I sent to you on the 2nd of March 2017 I ask

"Could you please advise me if I can pay by installments
or if i can make an agreement to pay by the end of April when I return to the uk?"

To which you answered (in the attachment you just sent me)

"Thank you for your email. We will not be able to hold the account beyond the 28 days, and would not be able to guarantee further enforcement will not continue. If you are studying abroad, you can provide us with proof of the date you left and a copy of enrolment papers so we can update our records."

So.. I asked if i could pay you by installments. You replied that you cannot hold the account beyond 28 days and cannot guarantee further enforcement will not continue. Then you ask me to provide proof of being out of the country.

Where in this email do you respond to my request to set up a payment plan to pay in installments???

Each time I recieve an email from yourselves the response is either ambiguous, conflicting, irrelevent or all
of the above. You don't seem to be able to give me any straight answers.

I asked for your help and advice to pay this additional fee and you have let me down.

Can you please confirm that the sum adjudged (£385) has been recieved by the courts and the warrant to collect
this fine now ceases to be?

Regards,


Jac


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- end of emails -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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jasonDWB
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#4 Re: LCCC FSN after Fully PAID FINE

Post by jasonDWB » 23 May 2017 22:26

Don't get into correspondence with LCCC. They will mess you about and throw the telephone down on you. Earlier today we filmed the scenes for a TV documentary and caught a court official doing precisely that. Another was caught giving wrong legal advice over the telephone in the same conversation she said she cannot give legal advice. We snared a DCBL "bailiff" calling at a London restaurant premises who turned out not to be a bailiff at all and he didn't even have a warrant or writ. The irony was he earlier threatened the client to turn up with a film crew!!! We were all laughing behind the scenes when I was giving the talk over the phone to the fake bailiff. Investigations showed the film crew he mentioned was none other than the hapless Brinkworth Films Ltd filming scenes for "Cant Pay We Take it Away".

As for your fine. Get it paid, give the paragraph 59 notice and contact me. If you are in the home counties and would like to take part in a prank show catching bailiffs breaking the law by threatening you with a locksmith, then I can refer you to the production.

Also, run this checklist to see if everything is compliant with the law: http://beatthebailiffs.org/magistrates- ... liffs.html
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#5 Re: LCCC FSN after Fully PAID FINE

Post by Pote Snitkin » 23 May 2017 22:52

Loose lips and all that Jason.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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#6 Re: LCCC FSN after Fully PAID FINE

Post by jasonDWB » 23 May 2017 23:17

More to come. On location again tomorrow.
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#7 Re: LCCC FSN after Fully PAID FINE

Post by jaja » 24 May 2017 11:00

Hi Jason. Thanks for the response.

I have Just called the courts to ask if my account is clear with them after paying it off in full in feb 22 2016 (after the fine was sent to Collectica).

They say that Collecticas fees were £310 and when I paid off my fine directly to the courts half was given to Collectica and half was taken off the fine.

So they say I still owe £155 to the court and £155 to Collectica.

+ they have sent this account to Marstons who will now add more fees.


Please can someone advise me on this, It looks like it is going to spiral out of control. Can the courts take further action against me?

Jac

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#8 Re: LCCC FSN after Fully PAID FINE

Post by jasonDWB » 24 May 2017 18:23

The courts won't. The bailiff company will. The court service gave wrong advice. It says it has apportioned the money given as though it is proceeds of sale. Money paid in discharge of a liability is just that. There is no regulation enabling court service to apportion public money in this way. Provided you have paid the "amount outstanding" to the court, the liability is extinguished. The bailiff will want his fees. If you are concerned a bailiff is threatening you with breaking entry or having the locks drilled, please contact me. I have a TV production that is looking to catch a bailiff threatening to break entry or using a drill to break locks for a fine that has already been paid. Provided the bailiff does not know what you look like, a member of the production cast will stand in for you. I expect it will be one of the two main presenters.
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Joined: 18 Dec 2016 15:46

#9 Re: LCCC FSN after Fully PAID FINE

Post by jaja » 26 May 2017 00:07

Hi Jason,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Can I please take a little more of it...!

Can a bailiff add more fees to this £310?

My account was sent to Collectica (i then paid then the adjudged amount online) then it was sent to LCCC then the account was sent to Marston's.
I see that Collectica is a subsidiary of Marston's... Can they add extra fees by being a 'different' company?

Also is there a time limit for this £310?


Thank you!

J

jaja
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Joined: 18 Dec 2016 15:46

#10 Re: LCCC FSN after Fully PAID FINE

Post by jaja » 26 May 2017 00:25

By time limit I mean will it expire after the 6 years Limitation Act timeframe and will it be collectable until then.

Thanks

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#11 Re: LCCC FSN after Fully PAID FINE

Post by jasonDWB » 26 May 2017 16:42

You answered your own question
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