Paid fine online

Quash the Conviction. Revoke the Fees. Claim Damages for Improper Enforcement Action
GDB
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#36 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 11:38

Oh, by the way.

Mr Cameron come calling at your door he is trespassing, tell him in no uncertain terms to wee wee off or words to that effect.

Do not answer his calls, if he persists keep a record and make a complaint to the police of harassment.

Twixi
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#37 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 15 Mar 2017 12:12

He has said, he hasn't proof it's been paid, and only the court can recall the warrant.

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#38 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 15 Mar 2017 12:16

Also, text my phone standing outside my house, I wasn't in but my daughter was in. he has also said he's called the court and they have said I haven't paid apparently !!!!

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#39 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Schedule 12 » 15 Mar 2017 13:16

The bailiff is taking a lot of risk. If your daughter is under 18 then he must withdraw from the property.

Regulation 10(1) of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013 states;
  • 10.—(1) The enforcement agent may not take control of goods of the debtor where—

    • (a)the debtor is a child;

      (b)a child or vulnerable person (whether more than one or a combination of both) is the only person present in the relevant or specified premises in which the goods are located; or

      (c)the goods are also premises in which a child or vulnerable person (whether more than one or a combin
    ation of both) is the only person present.
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GDB
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#40 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 13:46

A bailiff will give you all sorts of excuses etc etc etc.

You know you have paid the fine (in full)

Speak to the Court yourself - not a 3rd party (the bailiff)

Twixi
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#41 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 15 Mar 2017 14:34

Ok, update, spoke to a lovely lady at the court, however although payment was taken, it's been held apparently until Marston's have been paid ? I explained that the EA is being difficult and threatening, so she said to call the office direct rather than deal with the Bailiff.
They will keep on until fee's are paid.
It's out of the courts hands.
She said some of the payment will have been split, part to Marston's and some to the court ??

Twixi
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#42 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 15 Mar 2017 15:47

I think I'll just have to come to an arrangement to pay the fees, otherwise it'll just go round in circles.
The court don't want to know at all, just saying as it's with the Bailiff, the distress warrant is still live

GDB
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#43 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 16:18

Please wait for Jason to answer, I understand that there is no legal provision for the Courts to pass or hold money where bailiffs are concerned.

The lady at the Court may of been polite etc, but I think she is wrong.

Please hang fire for while, Jason is the man who can advise on this,

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#44 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 16:35

The Courts are not responsible for any Bailiff fees, the sum you were fined did not include bailiff fees.

Marston's are nothing to do with the Ministry of Justice or the Court service, they are a privately run business, I'm 99.9% sure the lady you spoke to at the Court is following what she has been told by someone further up the ladder.

Twixi
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#45 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 15 Mar 2017 16:42

I see, Jason is indeed on it. I think Mr Cameron is getting a bit testy, he wasn't banking on a legal professional to get involved. If the fees are owed then I'll pay them, but threatening me is not the way to do it. Or maybe it is for them.

GDB
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#46 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 16:52

Threats are the way they do things - very common for them - fear of God etc etc.

To be blunt he is peed orf with you - do not make any offers of payment for fees etc until Jason comes back to you.

All he has done is make a few phone calls, probably driving past your house anyway as he has other calls in the area etc.

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#47 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Schedule 12 » 15 Mar 2017 16:54

If the fine (sum adjudged) is paid without the bailiff taking control of goods, the power conferred under the warrant of control is extinguished.

To take control of goods, the bailiff must perform one of the four powers prescribed in paragraph 13(1) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 (TCEA 2007) which are:
  • Ways of taking control

    13(1)To take control of goods an enforcement agent must do one of the following

    • (a)secure the goods on the premises on which he finds them;

      (b)if he finds them on a highway, secure them on a highway, where he finds them or within a reasonable distance;

      (c)remove them and secure them elsewhere;

      (d)enter into a controlled goods agreement with the debtor.




The warrant of control is issued by the court under section 76 of the Magistrates Courts Act 1980, which states:
  • 76 Enforcement of sums adjudged to be paid.

    (1)Subject to the following provisions of this Part of this Act, and to section 132 below F1, where default is made in paying a sum adjudged to be paid by a conviction or order of a magistrates’ court, the court may issue a warrant of distress for the purpose of levying the sum or issue a warrant committing the defaulter to prison.

    (2)A warrant of commitment may be issued as aforesaid either—

    • (a)where it appears on the return to a warrant of distress that the money and goods of the defaulter are insufficient to satisfy the sum with the costs and charges of levying the sum; or

      (b)instead of a warrant of distress
    .



In April 2014, the law changed a "warrant of distress" to a "warrant of control". It's just a change of name. No changes in the enforcement power other than to use the schedule 12 enforcement procedure.


When the sum adjudged is paid, paragraph 6(3) of Schedule 12 of the TCEA 2007 states:




Paragraph 6(3) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 states;
  • (3)The property in all goods ceases to be bound when any of these happens

    • (a)the amount outstanding is paid, out of the proceeds of sale or otherwise;

      (b)the instrument under which the power is exercisable ceases to have effect;

      (c)the power ceases to be exercisable for any other reason.






Paragraph 31 of the Taking Control of Goods: National Standards 2014 states;
  • Enforcement agents must not seek to enforce the recovery of fees where an enforcement power has ceased to be exercisable.



If a bailiff takes a sum under a threat of an enforcement power that is not in effect, you can bring an action against him by starting a claim under paragraph 66 of Schedule 12 of the TCEA 2007 which states:

  • 66(1)This paragraph applies where an enforcement agent

    • (a)breaches a provision of this Schedule, or

      (b)acts under an enforcement power under a writ, warrant, liability order or other instrument that is defective.


    (2)The breach or defect does not make the enforcement agent, or a person he is acting for, a trespasser.

    (3)But the debtor may bring proceedings under this paragraph.

    (4)Subject to rules of court, the proceedings may be brought—

    • (a)in the High Court, in relation to an enforcement power under a writ of the High Court;

      (b)in the county court, in relation to an enforcement power under a warrant issued by the county court;

      (c)in any other case, in the High Court or the county court.


    (5)In the proceedings the court may

    • (a)order goods to be returned to the debtor;

      (b)order the enforcement agent or a related party to pay damages in respect of loss suffered by the debtor as a result of the breach or of anything done under the defective instrument.
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GDB
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#48 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 16:59

Hi Jason, did not want to tread on your toes etc, thought best to leave the legislation to you.

Twixi
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#49 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 15 Mar 2017 17:05

Hes just text again, apparently the fees and fine come as one, you can't pay one without the other it seems.
He won't accept instalments to clear the fee's either.
I havent got £310 to pay in one lump. :(

GDB
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#50 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 15 Mar 2017 17:22

No No No No = a fine is a fine - no fees are added onto the fine.

If the fine is 50.00 its 50.00 --------not 50 plus 310.

Please stop offering instalments to pay the fees - by doing that he is winning the battle and will press you even more.

Twixi
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#51 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 15 Mar 2017 17:53

Jason has asked him to produce the warrant.
Mr Cameron has sais he won't contact me further, and unless payment bus made in full, then he will apply force to recovery debts

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#52 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Schedule 12 » 15 Mar 2017 17:56

He has to produce under paragraph 26 of Schedule 12 of the TCEA 2017. Demand to see it. Get it on video.

If he is not forthcoming with it, then enforcement also fails on Paragraph 26.

Here are some steps to protect yourself: http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Ex ... liffs.html
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Twixi
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#53 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 15 Mar 2017 18:01

I think it's because I paid the fine after the distress warrant was issued, and that's his case with the courts.
I think I may have been ignorant in thinking that if I paid the fine, I done the right thing

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#54 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 16 Mar 2017 10:20

Hi Jason, haven't heard anything from him yet, feel quite sick at the thought of another visit if I'm honest .

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#55 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 16 Mar 2017 10:31

Received this from the court this morning, I wasn't asking for payment terms, just confirmation of the payment I made .

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#56 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Schedule 12 » 16 Mar 2017 10:40

The court service will mess you about. They use standardised template letters. They dodge the question. Best to leave them alone. You have complied with the court order.

The fees are a simple dispute between the bailiff and the debtor. The bailiff may try and solve the dispute by taking a risk with an unlawful enforcement step, hoping he won't be dragged into court to explain it away. Not work £90 commission. That's what he earns if he gets £310 out of you. He will be angry.
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Twixi
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#57 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 16 Mar 2017 11:23

So the plot thickens, I've just called Marston's, I know maybe a bad move.
Firstly the payment I've made to the court hasn't reached them yet ? Secondly, they won't accept any offer of payment unless £610 is paid. And thirdly I have to go through Mr Cameron as once it's with the EA the office have no control over him apparently, and if I refuse to pay the sum outstanding £610 , then I can be arrested.

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#58 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Schedule 12 » 16 Mar 2017 11:25

Bailiff companies cannot "arrest" suspects. It was tried with disastrous results.

http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Ba ... rrants.htm
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Twixi
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#59 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 16 Mar 2017 11:27

So even though they have proof the fine has been paid, they still want £610 ????

GDB
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#60 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 16 Mar 2017 11:38

This is just going from NUTS to CRAZY.

Twixi

Why don't you listen to Jason, you are going around in circles and getting yourself in a state.

All Marstons and Cameron are interested in is their commission and fees.

Jason has even posted the Legislation up for you. The LAW is the LAW, Cameron and Marstons cannot change it to suit themselves.

Twixi
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#61 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 16 Mar 2017 11:52

I know, and Jason has been great. Just don't fancy another door knock from Mr C, although, I must admit if he was adiment he was going to get a locksmiths etc, why hasn't he. If he has the power he would have come back later ? So much conflicting info, but Jason has years of experience and legal qualifications, more than a Bailiff or court secretary.

GDB
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#62 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 16 Mar 2017 11:58

He cannot get a locksmith as that would require permission from the Magistrate - No chance as fine is paid!

He wants his fees and considers you an easy target because he can tell you are worried etc.

Don't answer the door if you know its him - he will soon get fed up and move on to another target.

Wise man say, he who piddles into the wind gets a wet leg - Mr Cameron take note!

Twixi
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#63 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 16 Mar 2017 12:07

Thank you ,you make me smile. I suppose it can't even be sent back to the court because.the fine technically is clear. Although I bet they would try :)

GDB
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#64 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 16 Mar 2017 12:19

No, cant be sent back as fine is paid - will be filed under B1N

Whats the difference between a Bailiff and a Politician - Politicians sometimes tell the truth!

Twixi
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#65 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 16 Mar 2017 13:07

Very true. So this is how I see it, correct me please if I'm wrong.
When you get your fine, the judge would have made a decision with regard to how much, which includes victim surcharge and court fees.
However, the judge, can't then go "but just to be safe I'll add £310 just in case you default " as he would have no idea if you intend to or not.
Otherwise the fines would be massive and everyone would be in prison for not paying.
That's how I see it, I'm not privy to how the system really works :)

GDB
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#66 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 16 Mar 2017 13:34

Yes...yo7 have hit the nail on the head.

Twixi
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#67 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 16 Mar 2017 13:37

So common sense does exist lol, just a pity the powers at be chose to ignore it. I think its time EA firms should be regulated properly. Not private.
At the moment it seems that even the governing body is about as useful as a chocolate fire guard.

GDB
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#68 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 16 Mar 2017 14:26

It would appear that way.

I have witnessed first hand bailiffs attitude and lies...it not at all pleasant.

GDB
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#69 Re: Paid fine online

Post by GDB » 16 Mar 2017 14:26

It would appear that way.

I have witnessed first hand bailiffs attitude and lies...it not at all pleasant.

Twixi
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#70 Re: Paid fine online

Post by Twixi » 16 Mar 2017 14:30

Oh dear, but did you succeed I your efforts ?
It seems alot of effort for £310, and his £90 of it .
I admit I broke the law, and I should have sorted it out, but I paid my dues as the law permits.

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