no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

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mary m
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#1 no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by mary m » 22 Mar 2017 18:36

Good afternoon,
In July of last year I received a high court fine for 350pounds for alleged theft.
I work as a volunteer for different charities and to the law, when I was apprehended, I gave as address the name of the charity where I volunteer the most, having no house of my own, or car etc.
In the meantime, having no income, the collections unit organised for my fine to be paid in installments. I stressed in my communications with them that all contact should be made by email since I travel a lot and have no house of my own. They still had the provisional address of the charity. I paid some installments of the fine, as arranged. My debit card went missing and I sent them a cheque in December...i was anxious to know it had arrived. They said it had. The same in January and February from overseas BUT they have not arrived. I only learned this a today because of Marston's. So , a couple of days ago a man turned up at the charity where I volunteered in England. He asked if I was there. A friend of mine said no and since he (Marston's chap) said that he was from the court, my friend explained that the place is a retreat centre then that he had no idea when I would be back. He suggested the Marston's chap email me but he said they don't email. My friend gave him my phone number. Then the Marston's chap called me twice. I didn't answer. He then left a letter saying I owe him 560 pounds!
Apparently there had been a letter sent before but the charity wrote "not at this address" (because I wasn't there). and sent it back.
When I found out about this I called the collections unit, my heart sinking because I realized they must not have received my cheques. That was indeed the case but rather than emailing me they handed it straight over to Marston's! They said that now I am unable to pay them the fine and must deal with Marston's although there are plenty of emails wherein I stress that I don't receive letters and to contact me by email.
I am loth to give this money to Marston's. It may not be much for some, but as a volunteer for charities it seems like giving a lot to something I don't believe in! Also, it's money I don't have!
Marston's say that they are going to call again unnanounced to verify I don't live there and if I don't, they will track me down. What are their rights considering I am a volunteer?
I don't know when they will call again, and if I will have returned or not.
How long do I have, legally, before they raise their charges?
Is there a way I can pay the fine alone to the high court, bypassing the bailiff fees?
I don't like the thought of these people disturbing the peace of a retreat centre, whether or not I am there!
If I am there, what are their rights? Must I really pay them so much since I have no income?
When they say they will track me down, how can they do that and what would they do once they found me?
The balance I owed for the fine I was paying in installments was 250pounds by the way, before the cheques went missing.
I look forward very much to your advice and thank you in advance for your patience and attention.
Best wishes,
Mary

mary m
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#2 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by mary m » 22 Mar 2017 19:05

Ps, furthermore I should maybe explain that it is written "Removal Notice". Underneath there is some script saying "despite previous visits and notices this matter has not been settled". There is no evidence of any previous visits. If they sent a letter it was returned with "not at this address". Having read some of the other threads in the forum I wonder if the fact that I am unemployed (working as a volunteer) renders me a vulnerable person? When I spoke to him on the phone explaining i don't have this money he said "ask friends and relatives" which seemed rather dubious and unethical. ....thank you so much in advance! Looking forward to any advice!

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#3 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Schedule 12 » 22 Mar 2017 19:26

mary m wrote:
22 Mar 2017 18:36
Good afternoon,
In July of last year I received a high court fine for 350pounds for alleged theft.
This is a magistrates court fine. Nothing to do with the High Court.



I work as a volunteer for different charities and to the law, when I was apprehended, I gave as address the name of the charity where I volunteer the most, having no house of my own, or car etc.
In the meantime, having no income, the collections unit organised for my fine to be paid in installments. I stressed in my communications with them that all contact should be made by email since I travel a lot and have no house of my own. They still had the provisional address of the charity. I paid some installments of the fine, as arranged. My debit card went missing and I sent them a cheque in December...i was anxious to know it had arrived. They said it had. The same in January and February from overseas BUT they have not arrived.

Did you keep a record of posting the cheques? This will be important in proving that you "tendered" the money to the creditor. Otherwise you will have to make an affidavit of fact.



I only learned this a today because of Marston's. So , a couple of days ago a man turned up at the charity where I volunteered in England.
If you do not live there, Marston is up a creek. He cannot take control of someone else's goods. Paragraph 10 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.


If you are out of the country, then enforcement has also failed on paragraph 7(1) of Schedule 12. The debtor must be given notice before the bailiff can start enforcement. The notice will have been given to the shop address so the giving of the notice fails under the test provided by section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978.




He asked if I was there. A friend of mine said no and since he (Marston's chap) said that he was from the court,
The Marston bailiff is not "from the court". He is an enforcement agent from Marston Holdings Limited executing a warrant issued by the magistrates court.

It is a Marston policy to train its rookie bailiffs in the classroom to say they are "from the courts", but that is techincally an offence of fraud by false representation under section 4 of the Fraud Act 2006.






my friend explained that the place is a retreat centre then that he had no idea when I would be back. He suggested the Marston's chap email me but he said they don't email.
Do not email Marstons. You will kick a hornets nest.




My friend gave him my phone number. Then the Marston's chap called me twice. I didn't answer. He then left a letter saying I owe him 560 pounds!
The ring tone will be a continental one. The bailiff will know you are out of the country. He knows your case is a lost cause.




Apparently there had been a letter sent before but the charity wrote "not at this address" (because I wasn't there). and sent it back.

The policy is to attempt trace action. As you are out of the country, their efforts will come to nothing.




When I found out about this I called the collections unit, my heart sinking because I realized they must not have received my cheques.
Check your bank. See if they were cashed.

If not, then stop the cheques. Re-tender the money to clear the fine. Do not give your return path address. Send it by secured delivery. If the cheques given by secured delivery are not cashed, the court service has spunked public money and it goes in your pocket.







That was indeed the case but rather than emailing me they handed it straight over to Marston's!
That is what HM Court Service tell you. Reality, no public money is given to a private company. Here is an example: http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Co ... iliff.html



They said that now I am unable to pay them the fine and must deal with Marston's although there are plenty of emails wherein I stress that I don't receive letters and to contact me by email.
You are off jurisdiction. You don't owe any fees. The bailiff is unable to use the schedule 12 enforcement procedure. The operation of regulation 3 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014 applies:
  • Application of these Regulations

    3. These Regulations apply when an enforcement agent uses the Schedule 12 procedure.



I am loth to give this money to Marston's.
Don't

Pay the balanmce of the fine to court. Or tender it by cheque using a secured delivery. That will extinguish the enforcement power.



It may not be much for some, but as a volunteer for charities it seems like giving a lot to something I don't believe in! Also, it's money I don't have!
Marston's say that they are going to call again unnanounced to verify I don't live there and if I don't, they will track me down.



If the bailiff tracks you down, they contradict paragraph 12 of the Taking Control of Goods National Standards 2014 - published by the Ministry of Justice. I would expect Ministry of Justice to comply with its own guidelines!
  • 12. Creditors must not issue a warrant knowing that the debtor is not at the address, as a means of tracing the debtor at no cost.
Even if the bailiff traced you, the enforcement is ineffective because you have not been given a statutory notice under Paragraph 7(1)




What are their rights considering I am a volunteer?
It doesn't change anything as far as enforcement regulations are concerned.





I don't know when they will call again, and if I will have returned or not.
Never say never






How long do I have, legally, before they raise their charges?
None, their charges dont apply unless the bailiff uses the schedule 12 enforcement procedure. So far, it fails on Paragtaph 7(1) because you have not been given notice.




Is there a way I can pay the fine alone to the high court, bypassing the bailiff fees?

Just pay it online. Or tender it by cheque under secured delivery.

That causes the enforcement power to cease under paragraph 6(3) of Schedule 12.





I don't like the thought of these people disturbing the peace of a retreat centre, whether or not I am there!
The house master can remove a bailiff who is not acting lawfully. Any bailiff attneding an address and realising its a retreat centre will know enforcement is never going to work.



If I am there, what are their rights?
Don't give your name.

If you dont have goods, or the money, the bailiff cannot enforce the debt.



Must I really pay them so much since I have no income?
How will you pay them if you don't have the money.



When they say they will track me down, how can they do that and what would they do once they found me?
Lets deal with that as it happens. We're being too hypothetical.

There is not much a bailiff can do at a retreat centre. Call police on 999 reporting a disturbance and say the property is a retreat centre.




The balance I owed for the fine I was paying in installments was 250pounds by the way, before the cheques went missing.
Check your bank and see if the cheques were cashed.

If not, re-tender them under secured delivery.



I look forward very much to your advice and thank you in advance for your patience and attention.
Best wishes,
Mary
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#4 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Schedule 12 » 22 Mar 2017 19:44

mary m wrote:
22 Mar 2017 19:05
Ps, furthermore I should maybe explain that it is written "Removal Notice". Underneath there is some script saying "despite previous visits and notices this matter has not been settled".
It's a standard bailiff A4 document they all use.








There is no evidence of any previous visits. If they sent a letter it was returned with "not at this address". Having read some of the other threads in the forum I wonder if the fact that I am unemployed (working as a volunteer) renders me a vulnerable person?

I would argue that you are vulnerable, but the guidelines say "unemployed people" but you are working as a volunteer, and the bailiff company defending might aver that amounts to "employment".

If you are receiving jobseekers allowance then the UB40 can be given as evidence you are in a class of vulnerable person. That doesn't protect you from enforcement action, regulations only say bailiffs cannot recover fees and costs.





When I spoke to him on the phone explaining i don't have this money he said "ask friends and relatives"
Stop telephoning the bailiff. You will wind him up!



which seemed rather dubious and unethical. ....thank you so much in advance! Looking forward to any advice!
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mary m
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#5 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by mary m » 22 Mar 2017 20:08

I just want to say thank you. You are amazingly helpful. And so generous with your time and expertise. I will think about your very informative reply. Could you tell me, is there a law preventing Marston to visit after/before certain hours? I am worried about the beautiful retreat centre and creating an unpleasant feeling among those who live there. How DO they track people down? Say I were to return to England, could they use my passport details? Could they get me stopped at passport control? And should I go to the court to pay? Now that I have been handed over to the bailiffs is it really still possible to pay online? Should I look for a special website? Thank you infinitely. You are wonderful, as I said! Bless you for your generosity. Mary

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#6 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Schedule 12 » 22 Mar 2017 20:48

mary m wrote:
22 Mar 2017 20:08
I just want to say thank you. You are amazingly helpful. And so generous with your time and expertise. I will think about your very informative reply. Could you tell me, is there a law preventing Marston to visit after/before certain hours?
The law is regulation 12 and 13 of the Taking Control of Goods regulations 2013 says bailiffs can attend between 6am and 9pm any day of the week. Not bank holidays and religious days such as Christmas and Easter.

Local Authorities contractually require its bailiffs to have a moratorium on enforcement between Christmas Eve and the day after New Years day.



I am worried about the beautiful retreat centre and creating an unpleasant feeling among those who live there. How DO they track people down?
[


There are too many methods used by bailiff companies and bailiffs to keep within the scope of a single forum post.






Say I were to return to England, could they use my passport details?
No.

Bailiffs powers are limited to those prescribed in Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.

Some bailiff will say they can arrest you and get a charging order etc. None of these powers are available to bailiffs or their firms.




Could they get me stopped at passport control?
No. That is a myth propagated by bailiff companies.

You are only stopped if you are on a no-fly list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List

Even then you can travel over sea or overland.


And should I go to the court to pay?
No. Court staff will mess you about. They will say "it's in the hands of bailiffs"




Now that I have been handed over to the bailiffs is it really still possible to pay online?
Yes.

Otherwise, if Court Service refuses a tender of payment, the warrant ceases to have effect. It was once attempted by an over-zealous court manager resufing money being piad into court as a fine. It resulted in revoking the warrant and the defaulter escaped his fine.


Should I look for a special website?
This one: https://www.gov.uk/pay-court-fine-online

Work out how much is owed. Keep the receipt. Issue the bailiff by text message a notice under Paragraph 59 of Schedule 12. That makes the bailiff liable for damages if he takes an enforcement step.



Thank you infinitely. You are wonderful, as I said! Bless you for your generosity. Mary
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#7 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Pote Snitkin » 22 Mar 2017 20:57

mary m wrote:
22 Mar 2017 20:08
Say I were to return to England, could they use my passport details?
You seem to have already returned....
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#8 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by mary m » 23 Mar 2017 09:08

Pote Snitkin I fail to see the relevance of your suppositions.
To the person who has been supplying me with such detailed and helpful commentries I have another question. If the fine is paid online, how best to inform the bailiff? Should I send the relevant parts of section 12? Good morning and thank you, Mary

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#9 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Pote Snitkin » 23 Mar 2017 09:10

mary m wrote:
23 Mar 2017 09:08
Pote Snitkin I fail to see the relevance of your suppositions.
To the person who has been supplying me with such detailed and helpful commentries I have another question. If the fine is paid online, how best to inform the bailiff? Should I send the relevant parts of section 12? Good morning and thank you, Mary
Keep your pants on. It's just that you say you're not in the UK at the moment, but you clearly are. Not sure why you say you're not.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#10 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by mary m » 23 Mar 2017 09:45

To Jason, I am not receiving any benefits, just volunteering. How should I inform bailiffs of payment online? Good morning and thank you! Mary

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#11 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Pote Snitkin » 23 Mar 2017 09:52

Email them or send a letter.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#12 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Michelle » 23 Mar 2017 10:14

mary m wrote:
23 Mar 2017 09:08
Pote Snitkin I fail to see the relevance of your suppositions.
You made the post below only yesterday:
mary m wrote:
22 Mar 2017 20:08
I just want to say thank you. You are amazingly helpful. And so generous with your time and expertise. I will think about your very informative reply. Could you tell me, is there a law preventing Marston to visit after/before certain hours? I am worried about the beautiful retreat centre and creating an unpleasant feeling among those who live there. How DO they track people down? Say I were to return to England, could they use my passport details? Could they get me stopped at passport control? And should I go to the court to pay? Now that I have been handed over to the bailiffs is it really still possible to pay online? Should I look for a special website? Thank you infinitely. You are wonderful, as I said! Bless you for your generosity. Mary
The post above was made from a residential broadband IP in the UK. One has to wonder WHY you would want to ask questions such as the above, when you were clearly in England at the time you posted, unless someone else is posting on your account from the UK...
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#13 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by mary m » 23 Mar 2017 10:27

To those concerned about my whereabouts it is irrelevant. My questions are concerning movement in general not to England specifically. Sorry I didn't make that clear. And, rightly surmised Michelle, someone might be working for me from England, yes, but it makes no difference to the questions I have asked. Thank you!

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#14 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Michelle » 23 Mar 2017 10:42

Your whereabouts WERE relevant to the specific question you asked. You clearly asked whether you could be stopped at passport control when entering the country. If you are not out of the country, why ask that question? What do you mean by "movement in general"? If you travel between two countries outside the UK, they wouldn't be interested in your English court fines, but then that wasn't the question you asked. We've had a lot of people coming here to post up on behalf of their family members, they always say that's what they are doing. You don't need to post the story of your life or your whereabouts, but the details you provide have to be truthful, otherwise the whole thing is a waste of time.
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#15 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Pote Snitkin » 23 Mar 2017 11:04

If it wasn't for the power station it would be a nice place.

Mary, are you currently in the UK or not - this is important as it will affect the advice given.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#16 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by mary m » 23 Mar 2017 11:24

Thank you for your concern. I think I have gleaned all the information necessary on behalf of the person concerned. Thank you all for your help and good will.

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#17 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Pote Snitkin » 23 Mar 2017 11:57

57a91bbed7c562b15b0b1daaee10b1a5.jpg
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On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#18 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Michelle » 23 Mar 2017 12:47

mary m wrote:
23 Mar 2017 11:24
Thank you for your concern. I think I have gleaned all the information necessary on behalf of the person concerned. Thank you all for your help and good will.
There are no rules against asking questions on behalf of someone else, people do it quite often, yet you started by saying the following:
mary m wrote:
22 Mar 2017 18:36
Good afternoon,
In July of last year I received a high court fine for 350pounds for alleged theft.
I work as a volunteer for different charities and to the law, when I was apprehended, I gave as address the name of the charity where I volunteer the most, having no house of my own, or car etc.
In the meantime, having no income, the collections unit organised for my fine to be paid in installments. I stressed in my communications with them that all contact should be made by email since I travel a lot and have no house of my own. They still had the provisional address of the charity. I paid some installments of the fine, as arranged. My debit card went missing and I sent them a cheque in December...i was anxious to know it had arrived. They said it had. The same in January and February from overseas BUT they have not arrived. I only learned this a today because of Marston's. So , a couple of days ago a man turned up at the charity where I volunteered in England. He asked if I was there. A friend of mine said no and since he (Marston's chap) said that he was from the court, my friend explained that the place is a retreat centre then that he had no idea when I would be back. He suggested the Marston's chap email me but he said they don't email. My friend gave him my phone number. Then the Marston's chap called me twice. I didn't answer. He then left a letter saying I owe him 560 pounds!
Apparently there had been a letter sent before but the charity wrote "not at this address" (because I wasn't there). and sent it back.
When I found out about this I called the collections unit, my heart sinking because I realized they must not have received my cheques. That was indeed the case but rather than emailing me they handed it straight over to Marston's! They said that now I am unable to pay them the fine and must deal with Marston's although there are plenty of emails wherein I stress that I don't receive letters and to contact me by email.
I am loth to give this money to Marston's. It may not be much for some, but as a volunteer for charities it seems like giving a lot to something I don't believe in! Also, it's money I don't have!
Marston's say that they are going to call again unnanounced to verify I don't live there and if I don't, they will track me down. What are their rights considering I am a volunteer?
I don't know when they will call again, and if I will have returned or not.
How long do I have, legally, before they raise their charges?
Is there a way I can pay the fine alone to the high court, bypassing the bailiff fees?
I don't like the thought of these people disturbing the peace of a retreat centre, whether or not I am there!
If I am there, what are their rights? Must I really pay them so much since I have no income?
When they say they will track me down, how can they do that and what would they do once they found me?
The balance I owed for the fine I was paying in installments was 250pounds by the way, before the cheques went missing.
I look forward very much to your advice and thank you in advance for your patience and attention.
Best wishes,
Mary
The word "I" appears a few dozen times in the above text...
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Anything posted by me is from my own knowledge and experience, it is not legal advice or the official views of this forum.

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#19 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by GDB » 23 Mar 2017 18:30

We will do the best to help you, there may be a language barrier issue.

It just help if we know the exact facts in order to give the best advice.

If people were arrested at the airport for court fines they would need plenty of officers and buses by the dozen.

Polive have more important things to do.

Bailiffs would take have your passport number anyway.

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#20 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Tony72 » 23 Mar 2017 19:28

Not that it matters but it seems odd that someone with no income or fixed address , I assume they sofa surf, have the funds to go abroad (wherever abroad is).

As Michelle says, in order to give good advice you need to be in possession of all the facts

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#21 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Schedule 12 » 23 Mar 2017 21:04

mary m wrote:
23 Mar 2017 09:45
To Jason, I am not receiving any benefits, just volunteering. How should I inform bailiffs of payment online? Good morning and thank you! Mary
Run this beat the bailiffs checklist. See what it gives: http://beatthebailiffs.org/magistrates- ... liffs.html
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#22 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Michelle » 23 Mar 2017 21:16

Tony72 wrote:
23 Mar 2017 19:28
Not that it matters but it seems odd that someone with no income or fixed address , I assume they sofa surf, have the funds to go abroad (wherever abroad is).

As Michelle says, in order to give good advice you need to be in possession of all the facts
Thing is, they were claiming to be abroad and worried about coming back, but the posts were made from the UK. There was no language barrier, it was clear what was written, just didn't add up. :?
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#23 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by mary m » 29 Mar 2017 11:46

Again, thank you for your comments. I'm not sure what sofa surfing is. I am fortunate to be able to travel so much, it's true. I work for different charities and individuals. Best wishes to all.

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#24 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by GDB » 29 Mar 2017 13:04

Sofa surfing...using friends or relatives sofa for a few nights and moving on to the next persons sofa for another few nights.

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#25 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by 1892gezza » 09 Jun 2017 13:52

Hi ... I would like Jason to help me regarding marstons.... need your help asap :)

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#26 Re: no fixed address, Marstons calling at a charity

Post by Schedule 12 » 09 Jun 2017 15:38

Contact me for a telephone consultation. The link is in my signature.
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