MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

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#141 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Michelle » 20 Apr 2017 23:06

Anamsey wrote:
20 Apr 2017 22:35
Oh ok lol something that was puzzling me was why you cant pm anyone on these forums, but now i get it lol i gor a pm that got me into trouble lol
Most forums offer a PM facility, but they often require a minimum post count to be able to send PMs. If you tried to PM on Legal Beagles, you may have found that you were not able to, for that reason. That is intended to prevent PM spam and also to stop people PMing negative stuff about the site, links to blogs, etc.
Anamsey wrote:
20 Apr 2017 22:35
But when you do pm someone why does do they post it on the forum pm sent?
To let you know that you should check your inbox, in case you don't get a notification.
Listen very carefully, I shall post this only once:
Anything posted by me is from my own knowledge and experience, it is not legal advice or the official views of this forum.

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#142 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 20 Apr 2017 23:15

Ok i have been reading some very interesting stuff on here, everyone knows my story by now, left abusive inlaws, homeless with kids bla bla, no need for pity or sympathy. The whole situation has made me very strong person but sometimes a big blow like this makes me want to give up again.

Anyway i have gotten myself into a mess but with the help of stepchange i am trying. I dont want to post anything on here about the other stuff, help would really be apprecaited by someone please by pm.

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#143 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Amy » 20 Apr 2017 23:20

Look at the bottom of the forum where it says "members only" - I've opened it up for you, post there.


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#145 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 21 Apr 2017 00:12

Do bailiffs live local? Just wondering because one of my husband's friend got a job as a ticket officer, the one that issues penalty notices and he got 'battered blafk and blue' i kid you not. He actually gor beaten up because locals found out thats what he does and someone pinned him against his car one night and he's beaten up. I wonder if bailiffs are subjected to the same lol

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#146 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by jasonDWB » 21 Apr 2017 08:28

They are usually not from the locality. One bailiff lives in Kent but travels weekly to Swindon to do council tax recovery.
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#147 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 21 Apr 2017 09:45

Update guys, i have just received a letter from court saying theres a hearing in may, in the morning, its not a local court, if i go after school run i'll probably be late???

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#148 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 21 Apr 2017 09:46

And does this mean i dont deal with marstons now?

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#149 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by jasonDWB » 21 Apr 2017 10:23

Its ended with Marstons.

If the offence was more than 6 months ago, ask the Magistrate to dismiss the prosecution's case under section 127 of the Magistrate's Courts Act.
  • 127 Limitation of time.

    (1)Except as otherwise expressly provided by any enactment and subject to subsection (2) below, a magistrates’ court shall not try an information or hear a complaint unless the information was laid, or the complaint made, within 6 months from the time when the offence was committed, or the matter of complaint arose.
They might argue the "the information was laid, or the complaint made, within 6 months from the time when the offence was committed" But try it anyway. It has been known to work.



Otherwise try this because your offence is a non-indictable offence.
  • (2)Nothing in—

    • (a)subsection (1) above; or

      (b)subject to subsection (4) below, any other enactment (however framed or worded) which, as regards any offence to which it applies, would but for this section impose a time-limit on the power of a magistrates’ court to try an information summarily or impose a limitation on the time for taking summary proceedings,


    (3)Without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (b) of subsection (2) above, that paragraph includes enactments which impose a time-limit that applies only in certain circumstances (for example, where the proceedings are not instituted by or with the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions or some other specified authority).

    (4)Where, as regards any indictable offence, there is imposed by any enactment (however framed or worded, and whether falling within subsection (2) (b) above or not) a limitation on the time for taking proceedings on indictment for that offence no summary proceedings for that offence shall be taken after the latest time for taking proceedings on indictment.

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#150 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Pote Snitkin » 21 Apr 2017 10:39

Anamsey wrote:
21 Apr 2017 09:45
Update guys, i have just received a letter from court saying theres a hearing in may, in the morning, its not a local court, if i go after school run i'll probably be late???
Oooooh.... so filing a s14 stat dec was the correct advice then? The court obviously felt there was a valid reason to extend the SD time limit. Who would've guessed it eh Peter? So glad we could educate you.... again.
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On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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#151 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Pote Snitkin » 21 Apr 2017 10:49

And then right on cue, another clueless dung beetle in the cesspit writes -
I have been following this on here, BHF and LB. isn’t it the case that the debtors situation is now considerably worse than when she started taking advice from BHF.

Isn’t it also the case that not one of the statements regarding regulation made by Jason have proven to be correct.

Why on earth did whe not stick to the advice she was given on LB. If she had this would have been settled.
Perhaps that is not her goal ?
Just as Anamsey confirms the case has been relisted, the bailiff is now out of the loop and all fees removed.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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#152 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 21 Apr 2017 11:02

If i'de taken the advice on here in the 1st place i would have been a lot better of, my fault for not understanding really.

What website is that comment on?

A BIG THANK YOU TO ALL ON HERE FOR HELPING. And the few people on LB that gave me genuine advice, with the exception of a few!!!!!!!

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#153 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 21 Apr 2017 11:15

By the way, i didn't have a licence for around 4 weeks ish. I changed banks and old dd didnt get changed. All this for 4 weeks????

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#154 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Pote Snitkin » 21 Apr 2017 11:59

Anamsey wrote:
21 Apr 2017 11:02
If i'de taken the advice on here in the 1st place i would have been a lot better of, my fault for not understanding really.

What website is that comment on?
Which one do you think? They're now accusing you of lying and telling different stories and accusing us of letting the bailiff believe you had £600 at home. It seems that we were the source of the leak to the bailif and not Milo, despite her being the one with your personal details.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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#155 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 21 Apr 2017 17:26

They can say what they like, water of a ducks back!!!!! Its just disgusting really. I never even spoke to the bailiffs about money, he actually refused to speak to me lol

Only peeple who talked about £600 was my husband to the bailiff and then i told sheila we can't do it. Everyone insitsted we pay at least £600 and my husband said he will try, the baliff walked out with the car keys. He couldnt get is tools, he was forced to take time off work!!! Bailiff acted illegally but taking the key like that, i didnt know that until now!!!!

Milo leaked the stuff, i left this forum to go on LB and then realised milo's nothing but a spy for marstons and various other bailuff companies. No one on here knew about money or anything or what was said ect.

I admit after sussing milo out i tried not to give her any more information.

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#156 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 21 Apr 2017 17:30

Sheila actually rung me telling me my husband told the bailiff theres money waiting and when i spoke to him he goes no i will TRY, my emails say we will TRY or we CANT

Anyway they can say what they like, they're the ones sat there with nothing to do other than find vunerable idiots like me to prey on!!! Good luck to them, just really sad.

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#157 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by jasonDWB » 21 Apr 2017 17:54

The fine and the enforcement has been stopped. You can start proceedings to recover the damages for drilling the locks to your door. Your defendants will be joint defendants who will have to settle their differences between themselves. Marston Holdings Limited and Ministry of Justice.

Marston will defend the claim by saying they did not know the debtor was unaware of the debt and carried out as instructed.

That fails because the judge asks them to show evidence of the authority to break entry. Marston will be unable to give one.

That means they acted outside the scope of the Enforcement Services Contract. That states they enforcement agent must apply for authority to break and enter to search for goods to taken into control.

You will also need to make the claim against the Ministry of Justice, Complaints and Litigation Team, 4th Floor, 102 Petty France, London SW1H 1AJ. That is because they instructed Marston and under Paragraph 66 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007, you have a right to bring the action against them.
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#158 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 21 Apr 2017 17:56

Ok well you're going to have to help me on that as i dont have a clue.

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#159 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Tuco » 21 Apr 2017 20:35

Anamsey, please do not start any claims. Firstly, your SD has not even been accepted at this stage and secondly, even if it had have been, Marstons were acting lawfully at the time they entered. Any claim you make could be deemed unreasonable and if a judge agrees, he could order that you pay Marstons legal costs for defending it.

As I told you in PMs, there have been mistakes made by both sides in the advice that you have been given and as usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Please do not build false hopes up that you are going to be awarded any money over this as it will only end in disappointment.

Keep pushing the fines manager regarding the breaches of legislation that did occur. If the SD fails, at least the complaint should ensure that Marstons are kept out of the loop.

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#160 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by jasonDWB » 21 Apr 2017 21:05

Tuco wrote:
21 Apr 2017 20:35
Anamsey, please do not start any claims. Firstly, your SD has not even been accepted at this stage

The law doesn't say a statutory declaration has to be "accepted".

and secondly, even if it had have been, Marstons were acting lawfully at the time they entered.
The enforcement notice was given to a neighbour. Not the debtor, so Marston couldn't have been acting lawfully. Marstons defence rests only on paragraph 66(8) of Schedule 12, but that is rather weak because the bailiff knew the address is wrong before drilling the lock at the correct address.

There is further evidence yet to be decided that the prescribed fees are not legally binding on the debtor. It only prescribes a schedule of them. It doesn't say who is obliged to pay them, so I would hold the claim until the outcome has been decided.


Any claim you make could be deemed unreasonable and if a judge agrees, he could order that you pay Marstons legal costs for defending it.
It would be the first time in the small claim track involving a bailiff breaking entry claim.




As I told you in PMs, there have been mistakes made by both sides in the advice that you have been given and as usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Please do not build false hopes up that you are going to be awarded any money over this as it will only end in disappointment.
It won't make a mint for you, but if the court follows the law and your evidence, there is no reason why your claim should fail. Tuco is right, the claim might land with the MOJ and leave it to them to settle with Marston to taking an enforcement step when there was no power.


Keep pushing the fines manager regarding the breaches of legislation that did occur.
It's been tried and tested. The fines officer is automatous.



If the SD fails,
The only time an SD fails is when the debtor makes an SD against evidence that he knew of the proceedings before he was convicted.



at least the complaint should ensure that Marstons are kept out of the loop.
The law says Marston are out of the loop from the time the SD is posted by recorded delivery compliant to section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978.
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#161 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Tuco » 21 Apr 2017 21:31

The law doesn't say a statutory declaration has to be "accepted".
It also doesn't say that by simply sending one means that matters are taken back to the hearing stage. A magistrate will consider whether the application is reasonable or not. If (s)he ACCEPTS that it is a reasonable application,then the matter will be taken back to hearing stage. It is generally in place to cover situations where the summons had been sent to the wrong address/accused had moved address, not for situations where the accused claims that it was lost in the post.

The enforcement notice was given to a neighbour. Not the debtor, so Marston couldn't have been acting lawfully. Marstons defence rests only on paragraph 66(8) of Schedule 12, but that is rather weak.
Lets see the address on the NoE. The OP did receive the NoE, how long after receipt did Marston first visit?

It would be the first time in the small claim track involving a bailiff breaking entry claim.
I'm not surprised.

It's been tried and tested. The fines officer is automatous.
It's worked for me in the past. I've told her to escalate it in any case as the fines manager is off work this week.

The only time an SD fails is when the debtor makes an SD against evidence that he knew of the proceedings before he was convicted.
We'll see. Not only is the 21 day hurdle to be jumped but also the fact that the court will argue that the summons was served. A SD i not proof, it is evidence. It is up to the magistrate to consider the evidence and decide whether to accept it or not.

The law says Marston are out of the loop from the time the SD is posted by recorded delivery compliant to section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978.
Yes but if the SD is not accepted, things revert to the point they were at prior to the SD being served. Continuing with the complaint will ensure that Marstons are taken out of the equation, regardless of the outcome of the SD.

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#162 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Pote Snitkin » 21 Apr 2017 21:53

I thought a new hearing had been arranged. That says to me the SD has been received and accepted.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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#163 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Tuco » 21 Apr 2017 22:05

If the SD has been accepted then there is no need to pursue the complaint with the fines manager. I wasn't sure whether the hearing was just to gather further information and speak with Anamsey or not?

It is still very wrong to consider issuing a claim against Marstons though.

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#164 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 21 Apr 2017 23:57

Ok i kind of understood some of that, sort of.

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#165 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Michelle » 22 Apr 2017 09:21

10 days ago, you said the following:
Anamsey wrote:
10 Apr 2017 09:34
Hi marstons did break in whilst i was waiting for court hearibg on wednesday, thats when i was due in court. He got a locksmith at 6.30am and was drilling my door down. They didnt want to know about the court date or anything. Hes taken my car keys and said i've got till 2 to make paymwnt and now charging me for locksmith. I cant believe they broke my lock and didnt want to know about the court date. I thought they had to have court permission to break a lock?
Anamsey wrote:
10 Apr 2017 11:20
I wrote to the courts and told them about my sitiation and sent atached the letter you sent me a template of. They havent taken anything yet but coming back if we dont pay today i havent signed anything. They drilled my back lock. Can they do that? Without a court order? I thought they only allowed in if they let them in?
What was that court hearing for? From the above, it sounds like you had already submitted your statutory declaration after Jason posted the template on this thread a couple of weeks ago. What happened with that hearing that you were due to attend? If you had already sent your SD as you say above, how come you sent another one and got another hearing in May? The sequence of events is not at all clear.
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#166 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 22 Apr 2017 10:18

I printed the sd, wrote a letter and walked into court, asked for that to be signed and the nice gentleman told me it cant be done, you have to book an appointment and 'swear it'. I thought it would be quicker, get it in to court and they'll deal it with there and then, i did email it to the court aswell, i have a copy of the email.

Yes i know NOW it doesnt work that way, i should have followed the advice as it was given. I did get a telling off about it!!!

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#167 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 22 Apr 2017 10:31

I was assured by milo none of my details would be passed to anyone, shes posted it on the net!!! No one and i mean no one knew about my council tax and it wasn't really an issue, got letter, rung them, explained my situation and they accepted my payments which i am very very grateful for.

She didn't believe me so I sent a snapshot of the txt msgs about it. I asked 'you won't tell anyone about any of this or what i'm telling you" i was assured it would stay confidential and its just to get an idea of my situation.

Did the same with marstons, rung them, gone over by 1 day ONE day, 'will be passed to bailiff' wasnt at that point, 2 visits and passed back to client, again pleaded and nothing.

TWO VISITS!!!!! i got 6,

She's using different names to try and justify all of this, why? I havent lied, things i didnt fully understand i admit that about the advice i was getting.

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#168 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Michelle » 22 Apr 2017 10:46

Anamsey wrote:
22 Apr 2017 10:31
I was assured by milo none of my details would be passed to anyone, shes posted it on the net!!!
WHERE did she post your details? On Legal Beagles? I'm banned from that site since 2015 so I can't read the bailiff threads on there.
Anamsey wrote:
22 Apr 2017 10:31
No one and i mean no one knew about my council tax and it wasn't really an issue, got letter, rung them, explained my situation and they accepted my payments which i am very very grateful for.
Although both council tax and court fines are considered priority debts, forced entry is only allowed for the recovery of court fines but not council tax, that means fines should really be prioritised, although obviously CT can also be enforced in the usual ways, i.e. clamping vehicles parked outside.
Anamsey wrote:
22 Apr 2017 10:31
She didn't believe me so I sent a snapshot of the txt msgs about it. I asked 'you won't tell anyone about any of this or what i'm telling you" i was assured it would stay confidential and its just to get an idea of my situation.

Did the same with marstons, rung them, gone over by 1 day ONE day, 'will be passed to bailiff' wasnt at that point, 2 visits and passed back to client, again pleaded and nothing.

TWO VISITS!!!!! i got 6,
But you posted that they had ALREADY broken in when you went to LB, and you only got in touch with her AFTER you joined that site, as she is not allowed to join this site which is where you had already been posting. Although I realise it's none of my business, I do wonder why you decided to go to Legal Beagles if you had already been receiving help from this site...
Anamsey wrote:
22 Apr 2017 10:31
She's using different names to try and justify all of this, why? I havent lied, things i didnt fully understand i admit that about the advice i was getting.
Different names? Where? It's all getting a bit confusing...
Listen very carefully, I shall post this only once:
Anything posted by me is from my own knowledge and experience, it is not legal advice or the official views of this forum.

Knowledge is Power.

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#169 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Pote Snitkin » 22 Apr 2017 11:33

Milo has just come out with this one:
It is also evident from her prolific forums posts, that those people encouraging (and coaching her) to submit a Statutory Declaration 4 months AFTER she received a letter from the court, (presumably a Notice of Fine/Collection Order) are doing so for one reason and one reason only………and that is to help her EVADE PAYING BAILIFF FEES.
Absolutely we are trying to remove (not evade Milo dear) bailiff fees - it seems that upsets you? Why is that? Are you on a commission or something?

In addition, we are also trying to get the fine reduced - again that seems to offend you. She also posts this pathetic statement:
On the BHF forum she has said that if she had known about the case last October, she would have attended court to defend herself ?? I am completely lost at this comment given that there is very little if anything for her to DEFEND given that all TV licence prosecutions follow a personal visit to the defaulters home and their signature on a ‘Prosecution Statement’. Does she now intend to say that she was not being honest on the statement? For her sake, I do hope not.
Obviously the OP means the chance to mitigate herself - she was without a licence for 4 weeks after coming out of hospital following a c-section that had complications.

Now will you please slither back into your hut and leave this poor woman alone. You have done enough damage already.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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#170 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 22 Apr 2017 11:35

Someones been posting it on that bailiff wrong site under a different name. The only person who knew about the council tax issue was sheila. There was no issue with that because they agreeded i could pay weekly and sheila didnt believe me so i sent her the details.

I posted on LB after the bailiffs broke in because if you see on the earlier posts, i asked will bailiff come back, answer was no they never come back when they say, will they break in? No they wont, but they did.

All the information i was getting on here, the bailiff was doing the opposite, thats why i went on legal beagles, and thats were i got pmd n milo got involved, the bailiffs were going against all the advice given on here, which made me post on there.

If they were watching the forum as everyone is telling me they do, i posted hes sat outside help!!!! He must have seen that because he told me he's been reading all the bad advice i've been getting on this forum, he showed it to my husband!!! Not the LB one but this one.

You're confused, how do you think i feel????

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#171 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Amy » 22 Apr 2017 11:39

Pote Snitkin wrote:
22 Apr 2017 11:33
Milo has just come out with this one:
It is also evident from her prolific forums posts, that those people encouraging (and coaching her) to submit a Statutory Declaration 4 months AFTER she received a letter from the court, (presumably a Notice of Fine/Collection Order) are doing so for one reason and one reason only………and that is to help her EVADE PAYING BAILIFF FEES.
Absolutely we are trying to remove (not evade Milo dear) bailiff fees - it seems that upsets you? Why is that? Are you on a commission or something?

In addition, we are also trying to get the fine reduced - again that seems to offend you. She also posts this pathetic statement:
On the BHF forum she has said that if she had known about the case last October, she would have attended court to defend herself ?? I am completely lost at this comment given that there is very little if anything for her to DEFEND given that all TV licence prosecutions follow a personal visit to the defaulters home and their signature on a ‘Prosecution Statement’. Does she now intend to say that she was not being honest on the statement? For her sake, I do hope not.
Obviously the OP means the chance to mitigate herself - she was without a licence for 4 weeks after coming out of hospital following a c-section that had complications.

Now will you please slither back into your hut and leave this poor woman alone. You have done enough damage already.
Does beg the question somewhat, why did she have PT send a PM offering Milo's help if she believed the case to be a lost cause.

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#172 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Amy » 22 Apr 2017 11:42

Anamsey wrote:
22 Apr 2017 11:35
Someones been posting it on that bailiff wrong site under a different name. The only person who knew about the council tax issue was sheila. There was no issue with that because they agreeded i could pay weekly and sheila didnt believe me so i sent her the details.

I posted on LB after the bailiffs broke in because if you see on the earlier posts, i asked will bailiff come back, answer was no they never come back when they say, will they break in? No they wont, but they did.

All the information i was getting on here, the bailiff was doing the opposite, thats why i went on legal beagles, and thats were i got pmd n milo got involved, the bailiffs were going against all the advice given on here, which made me post on there.

If they were watching the forum as everyone is telling me they do, i posted hes sat outside help!!!! He must have seen that because he told me he's been reading all the bad advice i've been getting on this forum, he showed it to my husband!!! Not the LB one but this one.

You're confused, how do you think i feel????
I think you got roped in by LB's use of the word 'legal' in their forum name.

There is nothing 'legal' about them at all, none of them are legally trained. Although they do love to threaten people with court claims and sometimes they actually issue them too, which makes a total mockery of them pretenting to stand up for people and 'guarding their rights'.

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#173 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by jasonDWB » 22 Apr 2017 11:46

Sheila gave the advice on this forum to your bailiff. The bailiff acted upon it.

To put it lightly. Sheila stabbed you in the back.

LB advice focusses on debt and money related advice.
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Anamsey
Posts: 96
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 16:18

#174 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 22 Apr 2017 11:47

I have proof of all my circumstances, hospital letters, records at various goverment agencies with regards to my personal circumstances who helped me break free. Helpline that i ring.

Who in their right mind would make all this up??? OMG really? I hope and pray no one is in my situation.

Anamsey
Posts: 96
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 16:18

#175 Re: MARSTONS Coming back to collect full payment or break locks HELP

Post by Anamsey » 22 Apr 2017 11:49

jasonDWB wrote:
22 Apr 2017 11:46
Sheila gave the advice on this forum to your bailiff. The bailiff acted upon it.

To put it lightly. Sheila stabbed you in the back.

LB advice focusses on debt and money related advice.
EXACTLY, THATS WHAT I'M TRYING TO TELL EVERYONE.

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