Marston - 'warrant of control'

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Lh2017
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#1 Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 24 May 2017 19:41

I've been looking through some of the other forums and there seems to be a wealth of information... I was hoping to get some clarification on my own situation if possible!

I recieved an NIP about 2 years ago now, to which I replied to and gave my details for. A couple of months later I moved house and during that time had my mail redirected to my new address. I never heard anything in those few months. I wrote a letter to the Police advising them of my new address. I never heard anything back and as time passed I thought it had perhaps gone out of time to be dealt with. I wasn't going to chase to find out and offer a prompt! Anyway... the new house owners had my new address and never sent anything on either so again I pressumed it had been sort of lost in the system...

Yesterday, I received a letter from Marston telling me I had failed to pay a fine of £829. I looked into who they were and gave them a ring today to find out what it was all about. They told me it related to a court fine issued on 19th January 2017 at Oxford Magistrates court, regarding a speeding offence. So, given I was unaware that there had even been a court hearing, I sent of the statutory declaration form I found in another one of your threads, recorded delivery today. Marston say that if they do not hear from the court by 30th May then it will be passed to an agent who will come to the address. I am currently staying with family and they told me they had traced the address, which suggests all the other (if there was other) post was sent to my old address.

Given the time delay for this being heard in court, is this likely to be out of time and thrown out when looked at again? And how long is it likely to take for the Statutory Dec. to be laid in court? I'm very anxious of people coming to my family members address as I am rarely here so they might have to deal with Bailiffs!!!

Do I need to do anything else?

Thanks in advance!

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jasonDWB
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#2 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by jasonDWB » 24 May 2017 20:27

Lh2017 wrote:
24 May 2017 19:41
given I was unaware that there had even been a court hearing, I sent of the statutory declaration form I found in another one of your threads, recorded delivery today. Marston say that if they do not hear from the court by 30th May then it will be passed to an agent who will come to the address. I am currently staying with family and they told me they had traced the address, which suggests all the other (if there was other) post was sent to my old address.
The enforcement case is dead as far as Marston is concerned. They take it on the chin and move on.



Given the time delay for this being heard in court, is this likely to be out of time and thrown out when looked at again?
If the offence is more than 6 months, then the complaint cannot be re-made to the magistrate. Section 14 does say that "without prejudice to the original information" the proceedings are void. That means only the proceedings are void. The original complaint stands, but you can plead to the magistrate that you want more time to defend. That sours the milk because it uses up court time for a case that might already be dead.

And how long is it likely to take for the Statutory Dec. to be laid in court?
It takes effect the moment you post it by recorded delivery. It doesn't need to be "accepted" and the law doesn't require you to "book an appointment" to lay A statutory declaration.


I'm very anxious of people coming to my family members address as I am rarely here so they might have to deal with Bailiffs!!!

Do I need to do anything else?
Keep a copy of the statutory declaration inside the front door, and the bailiff a copy and video it all by holding up your mobile phone. Tell the bailiff to seek advice and quietly leave the property.

In any case, if you are not there, there is nothing the bailiff can do. If he does anything stupid, then he will be liable for everything that follows. It's not worth the risk because the bailiff is the one that goes time out defending it all afterwards and explaining away to the judge why he deliberately breached regulations.




Thanks in advance!
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Lh2017
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#3 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 22 Jun 2017 15:47

I have finally had a response from Oxford Magistrates Court. They have sent me a letter stating they are 'unable to process the Statutory Declaration because you were convicted under the single justice procedure (SJP) and you must also respond in writing to the SJP notice.'

Attached is a form asking me whether I plead guilty or not guilty to the charge ans whether or not I want the case to be heard in my absense or whether I want to attend court. Then it asks for me to offer mitigation to the offence and to fill in a means testing form.

Should I complete these and send them back or is this a ploy to get me to engage in the process of being prosecuted without being aware!

Thanks in advance.

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#4 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Pote Snitkin » 22 Jun 2017 15:53

Lol - so they say they won't process the SD then rewind the case and send you the notice from the start of proceedings.

Did they include the evidence upon which the prosecutor will be relying to prove the case?
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

Lh2017
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#5 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 22 Jun 2017 16:24

They just sent the charge sheet regarding the speeding being recorded. They said they couldnt process the Stat Dec as I also needed to fill in this additional paperwork...

My issue is, I have no information as to when the conviction was laid in court as the 'offence' took place in March/April 2015 and the court case whereby they issued the fine was on 19th January 2017. I know they only have 6 months to lay the information in court so how do I know that it isn't just out of time on that technicality alone. If i respond then it gives them more to continue to case with surely?

I wondered whether I should contact the court and ask them when the initial charge was laid in court before responding? I considered whether I need to get a solicitor but that would probably end up costing more than a fine!!

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#6 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Pote Snitkin » 22 Jun 2017 16:41

The six-month rule only applies to when they first lay the information, not when the sentence was passed.

So to clarify, they've sent you the original NIP with the allegation asking you to admit the charge or give the name of who was driving at the time? Was it wildly over the limit?
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

Lh2017
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#7 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 22 Jun 2017 17:02

Yes, that's what I mean - I do not know when the information was first laid in court...

I have recieved paperwork entitiled SJP - stating that I have been charged with a motoring offence and now need to provide information as to whether or not I am pleading guilty and wish for the matter to be dealt in court without me or guilty and i wish to attend court or if I plead Not Guilty and then it will go to court.

It was 103mph on a dual carriageway. I am aware that sounds reckless :-( I remember the day well as due to working in a prison I was late out from work - I am a single parent and needed to collect my children from school at 3.15 and I was on a dual carriageway approx 10 mins from town (on a clear day, with one other road user on that stretch, and a slight curve in the road obscuring my view of the police van tucked in behind a verge) some personal circumstances several months before meant my children were due to be collected from school one night and their father didnt show up due to being hospitilised; there were other matters that particular day which had caused quite an amount of stress. I was very sensitive about 'not being there to collect them' and in my bid to concentrate on getting to them I admit I was careless with watching my speed...

I have since facilitated a restorative justice conference between an offender and victim who lost her adult child in a car collision which happened because the offender was speeding. Believe me. That was enough to ensure I have been very speed aware since!!! Very different circumstances but still...

I intend to plead guilty if it goes to court but I would like to be there to offer my mitigation - just dont have the income to pay a solicitor so worried I would have to essentially represent myself!

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#8 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Pote Snitkin » 22 Jun 2017 17:24

Sentencing guidelines say you're looking at 6 points and a band C fine of about 1.5 times your weekly take-home pay. If you did go to court you would have access to the duty solicitor who will mitigate for you.

TBH, I doubt needing to be on time for the school run would be a strong argument as they'll just say the kids were in a safe, supervised and familiar place, and you could've contacted the school to inform them. Using the previous experience may bolster that argument, but it'll depend on the JP on the day.

Having no previous convictions, being of good character and your type of employment could be in your favour. Thankfully the bailiff's are now out of the loop.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

Lh2017
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#9 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 22 Jun 2017 19:30

It's a bit more complicated than just being there on time as there were more elements to it than just that (just a bit too sensitive to discuss on here) but yes I hear what you are saying. I had just returned to work after a period of being signed off with stress due to all the things which were going on - so let's just say I wasn't in an ideal frame of mind at the time and wasn't thinking logically. Hence the illogical "must get to the children". But that's good to know that I would have access to a duty solicitor on the day.

I think I will give a call to a solicitor who offers free consultation on the phone and see what they advise. Then go from there then. I don't want to fill in the forms and leave anything out that could go on my favour. I don't have any previous convictions and I'm a Probation Officer so I am hoping that will go in my favour. That and the circumstances around my frame of mind at the time.

Given I am a single parent on a part time wage I hope they will show some mercy and give me the minimum. As I understand, the new guidelines with regard to how to charge the fines are new? They would have to sentence/fine on legislation at the time of the offence I think... hoping they just give me a telling off and points and avoid the fine (or conditional discharge).

Lh2017
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#10 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 23 Jun 2017 09:24

So this morning I have had a letter from an enforcement agent through the door! Telling me that he will take my possessions and return this week unless I pay the fine.

I thought this was the point of the Statutory Declaration, so the court can tell the bailiffs that the issue is being taken back to court. The court have said in the letter that they have returned my Stat Dec. Which they haven't. So now they are asking me to plea on one letter AND chasing me with bailiffs for the original fine imposed. What do I do?

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#11 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 23 Jun 2017 09:50

I have just spoken to the court - they have advised me that the statutory declaration being sent does not stop proceedings against me. But that now I have to complete this further paperwork and then they will decide whether or not the fine still stands - I asked why would the court be asking me to make a plea to consider the fine but the bailiffs can still chase me for it? She then agreed to contact Marstons to tell them I am in the process of making a statutory declaration but that if the magistrates court decide the fine still stands then I will have to deal with the bailiffs again?

This doesn't sound right based on the other threads I have read. Any help at this stage appreciated!

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#12 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by jasonDWB » 23 Jun 2017 09:51

Lh2017 wrote:
22 Jun 2017 15:47
I have finally had a response from Oxford Magistrates Court. They have sent me a letter stating they are 'unable to process the Statutory Declaration because you were convicted under the single justice procedure (SJP) and you must also respond in writing to the SJP notice.'
That is not what section 14 does.

Just tell Court staff they have received the SD and they must follow the law.

If anyone gets funny, ask for their name and say you will make a complaint to the Ministry of Justice for deliberately subverting a statutory declaration exposing you to an unlawful loss.
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#13 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by jasonDWB » 23 Jun 2017 09:58

Lh2017 wrote:
23 Jun 2017 09:50
I have just spoken to the court - they have advised me that the statutory declaration being sent does not stop proceedings against me.

That much is correct. While the SD kills off the fine and the conviction, they can (within 6 months of the offence - section 127(1) of the Magistrates Courts Act 1980) re-start the proceedings. That can only start with a summons under section 1 of the Magistrates Courts Act 1980.

If it is more than 6 months since the offence or the complaint arose (the date the police filed at court), then any fresh proceedings are also dead. This applies to non-indictable offences, and speeding is non-indictable.

It looks like court staff are messing you about.

But that now I have to complete this further paperwork and then they will decide whether or not the fine still stands
You don't need to complete anything. They have to summon you first. Until then you can remain silent.





- I asked why would the court be asking me to make a plea to consider the fine but the bailiffs can still chase me for it?

Court service is trying to reinstate the fine without complying with the procedures. They need reminding that Section 14 revokes everything except for the original complaint.

The original complaint dies after 6 months from the date it was laid before the court. Section 127(1).

Cheating is not allowed!



She then agreed to contact Marstons to tell them I am in the process of making a statutory declaration
You have already done that. They admitted receiving it. The proceedings are all invalid.


but that if the magistrate's court decide the fine still stands then I will have to deal with the bailiffs again?

The conviction is invalid. They cannot revive a fine in this way without a conviction.

This doesn't sound right based on the other threads I have read. Any help at this stage appreciated!

Court service staff are being funny with you. You must record everything. If you have an android phone download ACR Pro £2.49 and you can record everything without telling them. It's exempt under section 35 of the Data Protection Act.


I would then give everything to Ministry of Justice, Complaints Team, 4th Floor, 102 Petty France, London SW1H 1AJ. Make a claim for damages from the Secretary of State for Justice. Your problem quietly goes away.
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#14 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Pote Snitkin » 23 Jun 2017 10:18

jasonDWB wrote:
23 Jun 2017 09:58
If it is more than 6 months since the offence or the complaint arose (the date the police filed at court), then any fresh proceedings are also dead. This applies to non-indictable offences, and speeding is non-indictable.
Are you sure about that? The original offence would still have been laid before the court within 6 months - the SD only rewinds proceedings to the point after that.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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#15 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by jasonDWB » 23 Jun 2017 10:23

Section 14 only revokes the conviction and the proceedings, but it is "without prejudice to the validity of the information" meaning the original information laid before the court, stands.

That is how the court can re-summon a defendant because Section 14 does not revoke the information laid before the court.


Section 127(1) revokes the information if more than 6 months have elapsed since it was laid before the court.

If the above is breached, the only working remedy I have is a claim against the Secretary of State at 102 Petty France.
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