Advice on National Compliance and Enforecement Service - Historic Debt team

Quash the Conviction. Revoke the Fees. Claim Damages for Improper Enforcement Action
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adeshpande
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#1 Advice on National Compliance and Enforecement Service - Historic Debt team

Post by adeshpande » 23 Jun 2017 13:10

On 20thJune 2017 I received a letter from National Compliance and Enforcement Service, stating that I have a fine of £469.00:
• The letter had incorrect name “Apurva Deshpand” instead of “Apurva Deshpande”
• The letter did not provide any details on the imposed fine
• That evening I had a panic attack looking at the fine amount and its financial implication.
Next morning 21st June 2017, I made haste to contact general enquires number where agent (Lady named Tabitha) was very helpful in providing the details:
• Charge goes back to a travel made on 24th September 2008 between Hounslow East (Zone 4) to Finchley Road (Zone 2) and an original ticket amount of £4.
Below are the details of the original event:
• Yes, I did travel from on 24th September 2008 between Hounslow East (Zone 4) to Finchley Road (Zone 2).
• At Finchley road exit I was stopped by the officer, where showed my Zone 2-4 travel card.
• The officer informed me that zone 2-4 travel card that I had was not valid for this journey, since I had passed through zone 1, therefore I should have purchased zone 1 -4 ticket (i.e paid extra £4 to cover zone 1).
• At the time, I was new to the country and new to the travel route – Hounslow East to Finchley Road, consequently this was an error made unknowingly, which I explained to the officer and apologised for the same.
• Furthermore, the officer did not ask me to pay the fair difference of £4, rather I asked if any action was required on my end. But the officer at the time and let me go as.
After a few days to my surprise, I received a letter in w/c 10th October2008, with a fine amount that was substantially large (do not remember the exact amount). At the time, I went in shock as this was a big amount and clearly not aligned with the conversation I had with the officer and my understanding of the situation. Therefore, I responded to the letter in October and to my knowledge this case was closed as I did not receive any further communication until 20th June 2017.

• Since the receipt of this fine letter on 20th June 2017, the lack of information about the fine and lack of direction on how to approach led me to lose wages for 3 working days trying to reach:
o General enquires helpline
o City Magistrate (02031263050)
o Greenwich Magistrate (02084373585)
o and Wimbledon magistrate enquires number (02078051447)
where I was on waiting for minimum 1hr on each of the 3 magistrate’s reception line and eventually the call dropped
o the Fines team (option 3 on Greenwich Magistrates reception number) responded advised that this case does not sit with them and I should continue to reach the magistrate’s office again.
While I continue to make efforts to reach court, it is important to understand the implication of such unfair delayed action - The current economic situation is unstable and my time invested in following this is negatively impacting my job security. I am now suffering from anxiety and panic attacks.

Can you please help?

thank you,
Apurva

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Schedule 12
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#2 Re: Advice on National Compliance and Enforecement Service - Historic Debt team

Post by Schedule 12 » 23 Jun 2017 20:45

You were unaware of the CONVICTION until after you were fined. The law, section 14 of the Magistrates Courts Act 1980 says the proceedings are invalid.

This article explains the law behind it. http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/St ... -Fines.htm


If this applies to you, post back and I'll give you a template.
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adeshpande
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#3 Re: Advice on National Compliance and Enforecement Service - Historic Debt team

Post by adeshpande » 24 Jun 2017 07:31

Yes, that is correct I had received a fine letter from TfL, that I replied to (do not have any evidence as that was a long time back)but was not aware of any law / court proceedings until I received this letter on June 20th 2017.

I am booked for a statutory declaration in court next month. Can you please provide more information on this and what to expect in the court on the day? Do I need to do any presentation?

Thank you very much.

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#4 Re: Advice on National Compliance and Enforecement Service - Historic Debt team

Post by Schedule 12 » 24 Jun 2017 10:44

DO NOT go into court to make a statutory declaration. Read this WARNING >> http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Co ... iliffs.htm


Here is a template, have a local solicitor notarise it and take photo ID with you. Then send it to court by RECORDED DELIVERY.


Template.
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#5 Re: Advice on National Compliance and Enforecement Service - Historic Debt team

Post by Michelle » 24 Jun 2017 11:04

adeshpande wrote:
23 Jun 2017 13:10
• Charge goes back to a travel made on 24th September 2008 between Hounslow East (Zone 4) to Finchley Road (Zone 2) and an original ticket amount of £4.
Below are the details of the original event:
• Yes, I did travel from on 24th September 2008 between Hounslow East (Zone 4) to Finchley Road (Zone 2).
At Finchley road exit I was stopped by the officer, where showed my Zone 2-4 travel card.
• The officer informed me that zone 2-4 travel card that I had was not valid for this journey, since I had passed through zone 1, therefore I should have purchased zone 1 -4 ticket (i.e paid extra £4 to cover zone 1).
• At the time, I was new to the country and new to the travel route – Hounslow East to Finchley Road, consequently this was an error made unknowingly, which I explained to the officer and apologised for the same.
• Furthermore, the officer did not ask me to pay the fair difference of £4, rather I asked if any action was required on my end. But the officer at the time and let me go as.
After a few days to my surprise, I received a letter in w/c 10th October2008, with a fine amount that was substantially large (do not remember the exact amount).
There have been ticket barriers at Finchley Road station for more than 20 years, so you would have had to ask to be let out as the ticket wouldn't go through the machine if not valid.

The question is, HOW did they know who you were? Did the officer in question ask you to fill in a form providing your name and address? Did he ask you for ID?

London Transport has had a spot penalty fare policy for over 20 years. It used to be £20, now its £80. This penalty amount is payable on demand when you are stopped and found not to be in possession of a valid ticket for whatever reason (no ticket, child ticket, expired ticket, not enough zones, etc.) If unable to pay on the spot, then you'd be required to provide ID and your address. From what you say above, the officer in question didn't do any of that, so how on earth did they get your name and address to issue a fine?
adeshpande wrote:
23 Jun 2017 13:10
At the time, I went in shock as this was a big amount and clearly not aligned with the conversation I had with the officer and my understanding of the situation. Therefore, I responded to the letter in October and to my knowledge this case was closed as I did not receive any further communication until 20th June 2017.
Are you still at the same address you had in October 2008? Are you saying you never heard anything for 9 years? :o
Listen very carefully, I shall post this only once:
Anything posted by me is from my own knowledge and experience, it is not legal advice or the official views of this forum.

Knowledge is Power.

adeshpande
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#6 Re: Advice on National Compliance and Enforecement Service - Historic Debt team

Post by adeshpande » 24 Jun 2017 11:40

1. like yourself, I was not aware of zone rules as the Barriers let me out - I bought the ticket based on destination Tavel zone (2 -4). Hounslow east is zone 4 and Finchley Road zone 2.
2. I learnt about having to include zone 1 after I showed my ticket to the officer after I got out of the barrier, who then made me aware that although I am traveling from zone 4 (Hounslow east) to zone 2 (flinchely road), I passed zone 1 so I should have had a zone 1-4 pass.
3. I was new to the country (on student scholarship) and to that travel route - it was unintentional mistake. My English was not good, scared, and apologised for my lack of knowledge and the mistake then.
5.The officer asked my details for the "records" but I did not know what those were for, also was too scared to ask and he let me go leading me believe this is a "warning"Again this was 8 years back - but this why i felt unfairly treated when I received a fine letter in few days.
6. Therefore I responded to the TfL fine letter never heard back. I do not have any records it was 8years.
7.I moved out of the property in November 2008 have legal records to prove the house move and never received any correspondence since. So correct, I heard nothing for 8 years was not aware of any court order, Until this notice.

Hope his makes more sense. this to me is very unfair. Any advice is welcome. Thank you very much.

adeshpande
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#7 Re: Advice on National Compliance and Enforecement Service - Historic Debt team

Post by adeshpande » 24 Jun 2017 12:43

jasonDWB wrote:
24 Jun 2017 10:44
DO NOT go into court to make a statutory declaration. Read this WARNING >> http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Co ... iliffs.htm


Here is a template, have a local solicitor notarise it and take photo ID with you. Then send it to court by RECORDED DELIVERY.


Template.
Thank you Jason, much appreciated.
Could you kindly please help me with few questions:
1. I have been booked for an in person appointment in the court next month. I have been advised by the court if I miss appointment then they will add more fee to the initial amount and case will continue.
2.what is a statutory declaration? Does this mean that court will reverse the fine on the basis that I was unaware of the matter going to court?
3.what to expect on the day of statutory declaration at court?
4. Will the ask me to peal guilty or not guilty? If yes, what should I do?
5. Can I request for the summons or copy of the evidence before statutory declarations? If yes, should I request such copy before statutory deceleration - I.e will it help me at all in stat Dec appointment?

In 2008 I replied to TfL fine letter and now 8 years later I have in this courtcase- I am weary to send the statutary declaration by post - what if they continue chasing me and adding more fine? Also I do not want a nasty surprise like this one 8?years later. Therefore what is best way to present my case and settle the matter?

I do find this horrendous to have a the government use my/ tax payers money to chase a fine that could have been easily settled on the day 8 years back or by having TfL respond to my first letter in October 2008 - I moved out of the property in Dec 2008, my address was updated on electoral poll / bank etc; so if they can track me after 8 years, surely they could have replied straight after. This is unfair on various levels angsint the principle of effiently using tax payers money and mistreatment 8 years back taking advantage of TfL customers lack of knowledge and exploit it too make more money! Angry disappointed :( please help.

adeshpande
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#8 Re: Advice on National Compliance and Enforecement Service - Historic Debt team

Post by adeshpande » 24 Jun 2017 13:02

Sorry, could not edit post - moved out of property end of November 2008.

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#9 Re: Advice on National Compliance and Enforecement Service - Historic Debt team

Post by Schedule 12 » 25 Jun 2017 21:48

adeshpande wrote:
24 Jun 2017 12:43
jasonDWB wrote:
24 Jun 2017 10:44
DO NOT go into court to make a statutory declaration. Read this WARNING >> http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Co ... iliffs.htm


Here is a template, have a local solicitor notarise it and take photo ID with you. Then send it to court by RECORDED DELIVERY.


Template.
Thank you Jason, much appreciated.
Could you kindly please help me with few questions:
1. I have been booked for an in person appointment in the court next month. I have been advised by the court if I miss appointment then they will add more fee to the initial amount and case will continue.
No no NO!

There are no presribed fees. If you really want to attend court, then its at your peril. I did warn you.




2.what is a statutory declaration? Does this mean that court will reverse the fine on the basis that I was unaware of the matter going to court?
The court doesn't reverse anything. As soon as you have posted the sworn statutory declaration by RECORDED DELIVERY. The fine and the conviction is dead.

The court will have to re-summon you.

That is why court staff are trying to get you into court, so they skip the procedures and revide the fine and the enforcement as soon as you have laid thge SD without having to re-summon you and prevents you entering a defence, or putting the information out of time under section 127 of the Magistrates Courts Act 1980.



3.what to expect on the day of statutory declaration at court?
If you go to court by "appointment".You will remain convicted, the fine is revived, and so are the bailiffs. They want to subvert the operation of section 127 without you knowing.

I don't know how loud I must shout it from the rooftops, but you must NOT go by appointment to make a statutory declaration at a magistrates court. Send it by RECORDED DELIVERY.




4. Will the ask me to peal guilty or not guilty? If yes, what should I do?

If you were to attend, they will re-try you in a kangaroo proceeding. You have been warned. My previous post has already explained it to you.


5. Can I request for the summons or copy of the evidence before statutory declarations? If yes, should I request such copy before statutory deceleration - I.e will it help me at all in stat Dec appointment?

You are playing with fire contemplating going to court to make a statutory declaration. Do what Section 14 tells you. Not what unqualified court staff want you to do.

The conviction and fine are dead as soon as you post the statutory declaration by recorded delivery.

Move on.

If the court re-summon you, then defend the prosecution as out of time under section 127 and apply for your solicitor's costs. Court service will have to pay them from central funds.

In 2008 I replied to TfL fine letter and now 8 years later I have in this courtcase- I am weary to send the statutary declaration by post - what if they continue chasing me and adding more fine? Also I do not want a nasty surprise like this one 8?years later. Therefore what is best way to present my case and settle the matter?
You are fretting over things that cannot happen. The fine cannot be increased, and there are no extra fees. Court staff are messing you about.




I do find this horrendous to have a the government use my/ tax payers money to chase a fine that could have been easily settled on the day 8 years back or by having TfL respond to my first letter in October 2008 - I moved out of the property in Dec 2008, my address was updated on electoral poll / bank etc; so if they can track me after 8 years, surely they could have replied straight after. This is unfair on various levels angsint the principle of effiently using tax payers money and mistreatment 8 years back taking advantage of TfL customers lack of knowledge and exploit it too make more money! Angry disappointed :( please help.
If you still want to attend court, then that is your choice. We all know what will happen. We won't be able to sort it out for you.
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#11 Re: Advice on National Compliance and Enforecement Service - Historic Debt team

Post by Pote Snitkin » 25 Jun 2017 23:03

Just to pare that down - by making an appointment to attend the court may force you to enter a plea and try the case there and then. This means they've denied you your right to consider the evidence and seek advice. No-one with a sense of justice would advise this.

Do not make an appointment, post the SD.
On 29/07/17, Compo said "If you are interested I actually typed the word label. My spell checker interpreted it as liable" Discuss.

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#12 Re: Advice on National Compliance and Enforecement Service - Historic Debt team

Post by Schedule 12 » 25 Jun 2017 23:27

.. by RECORDED DELIVERY.
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