Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

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jasonDWB
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#36 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by jasonDWB » 12 Nov 2014 00:04

Its good but its not right,
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#37 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Michelle » 12 Nov 2014 01:25

jasonDWB wrote:
Michelle wrote: What they have been doing is intimidating and bullying people into paying. Wonga used to say they had close ties with the Metropolitan Police, implying if you didn't pay you may go to prison.
Crikey! I would caution them on the spot because that's a criminal offence under Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970. A solicitor can make a complaint to a magistrate for the question of charging the debt collector with the offence. Bye bye CCL.
It was a few years ago, 2010 or 2011. There must have been a reason why they stopped using that line.
jasonDWB wrote:
Michelle wrote: We know that couldn't happen because we are not in Dubai and debt is not a criminal offence in the UK
Well actually debt is not a criminal offence in Dubai either. Its only an offence if you fail to make an agreed payment by a specified time. Charging interest (rental of money) is illegal in Sharia law so the bank buys the property or car and lends that to the consumer in return for agreed payments. Its a workaround the no money lending law.
A bit off-topic, but there are some people with UAE debts popping up once in a while. My impression was that what is regarded as a criminal offence in Dubai is bouncing cheques (cheque fraud), and that post-dated cheques are often used as substitute for credit, for example, if you buy a car, you'd sign a number of post-dated cheques, one for each monthly installment.
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#38 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Michelle » 12 Nov 2014 01:34

Pote Snitkin wrote:It's brilliant having someone else with informed, concise knowledge on the board. And, judging by the avatar, someone who will only be saying it once.
Thank you.

Indeed I shall say everything only once! :lol:
Mark1960 wrote:Amy-Are you aware that this forum is only accessible when members are signed in?
I raised the same question and Amy sorted it out very quickly, I had to tell her only once. :D

The thread was aimed at anyone who may be receiving threats from debt collectors rather than just the BHF Elite like you guys who, no doubt, would have been aware of these facts. :oops:
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#39 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by monkeynuts » 12 Nov 2014 09:44

jasonDWB wrote: Does anyone know whether doorstep debt collectors still exist? I remember my parents talking about black-suited bowler-hatted bill collectors from the 1960's but I've never seen one in the flesh. When I first saw a bailiff on duty, he was a dirty old man type.
Yes they do! I had one visit me not so long ago! Was very funny when I asked him to complete a form which asked for every detail under the sun (Name, address bank details etc) before I would even acknowledge who I was.

Simple rule - play them at their own game - they have to get you to admit first and ascertain you are who they are after - they dont like it when the roles are reversed!

Needless to say he soon left and I've never heard a peep since!
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#40 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Michelle » 12 Nov 2014 13:05

monkeynuts wrote:
jasonDWB wrote: Does anyone know whether doorstep debt collectors still exist? I remember my parents talking about black-suited bowler-hatted bill collectors from the 1960's but I've never seen one in the flesh. When I first saw a bailiff on duty, he was a dirty old man type.
Yes they do! I had one visit me not so long ago! Was very funny when I asked him to complete a form which asked for every detail under the sun (Name, address bank details etc) before I would even acknowledge who I was.

Simple rule - play them at their own game - they have to get you to admit first and ascertain you are who they are after - they dont like it when the roles are reversed!

Needless to say he soon left and I've never heard a peep since!
Brilliant! :lol:
The more we post about the subject of debt collectors or DCAs, the more it will be indexed by Google and the more people will find it and read it. Hopefully after reading this thread they will no longer be intimidated by them or mistake them for bailiffs. :P
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#41 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Pote Snitkin » 12 Nov 2014 13:20

The thread's still only showing if you log-in. Surely we want casual browsers to view it?
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#42 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Michelle » 12 Nov 2014 13:41

Pote Snitkin wrote:The thread's still only showing if you log-in. Surely we want casual browsers to view it?
That was the idea, Google will only index stuff that's publicly available. The spiders that index sites are not able to log in. ;)

I thought Amy had fixed it last night... :?

I normally do things only once but I guess we'll have to ask her again.
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#43 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by monkeynuts » 12 Nov 2014 13:43

Michelle wrote:
Pote Snitkin wrote:The thread's still only showing if you log-in. Surely we want casual browsers to view it?
That was the idea, Google will only index stuff that's publicly available. The spiders that index sites are not able to log in. ;)

I thought Amy had fixed it last night... :?

I normally do things only once but I guess we'll have to ask her again.
I'll check now - :D
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#44 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by monkeynuts » 12 Nov 2014 13:53

Its all set ok....

Will just take a while for the spider bots to index I guess....
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#45 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Michelle » 12 Nov 2014 16:09

monkeynuts wrote:Its all set ok....

Will just take a while for the spider bots to index I guess....
Amy obliged. :D

You'd be surprised how quickly things can get indexed, from what I've seen on other boards, sometimes just 24hrs. :mrgreen:
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#46 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Inca » 12 Nov 2014 18:39

Oooh,,it's nice to have my real dress on,,still fits too,,am still thick but keen and eager to learn.

Michelle,,I finally understand what a DCA is.......took 3 forums to get the answer

Thankyou

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#47 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by jay72 » 13 Nov 2014 15:16

My understanding is that for consumer credit debts the main weapons are the consumer credit act , particularly if the agreement was from before april 2007 and the FCA rulebook.
I think that AAD follow the unenforceable route which is mainly for debts from pre 2007 Legal begals do the same and Cag say make an arrangement. As for get out of debt free, they are just odd i mean pote of the family snitkin

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#48 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Pote Snitkin » 13 Nov 2014 15:52

jay72 wrote:As for get out of debt free, they are just odd i mean pote of the family snitkin
Oy!
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On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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#49 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by monkeynuts » 13 Nov 2014 17:31

I used the GOODF route to a great success!

Whilst some of the ideologies seem 'wacky' to some if you dig down you can understand their thought process and reasoning!
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#50 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Michelle » 13 Nov 2014 17:37

jay72 wrote:My understanding is that for consumer credit debts the main weapons are the consumer credit act , particularly if the agreement was from before april 2007 and the FCA rulebook.
I think that AAD follow the unenforceable route which is mainly for debts from pre 2007 Legal begals do the same and Cag say make an arrangement. As for get out of debt free, they are just odd i mean pote of the family snitkin
As they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I've started a thread here about dealing with debt collectors here: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=2374&p=28936#p28936

The first step should always be to find out what the debt is for so you can deal with it accordingly, the Consumer Credit Act wouldn't apply to every debt, for example, it wouldn't apply to things like tax credits overpayments, service agreements or utility bills.
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#51 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Michelle » 13 Nov 2014 17:41

monkeynuts wrote:I used the GOODF route to a great success!

Whilst some of the ideologies seem 'wacky' to some if you dig down you can understand their thought process and reasoning!
It obviously works in some cases or they wouldn't have so many followers, where I can see a problem is if they took you to court, having to explain the process and reasoning to a judge may get a bit tricky. :?
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#52 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by jay72 » 13 Nov 2014 20:16

From what I have read on GOODF they claim a win when a DCA return it to the creditor . I do not think you can class it as a win although it is a result. After all we all know that a DCA as opposed to a debt purchaser has no powers.

I was only referring to consumer credit debts i.e those regulated by the CCA

I need help with bailiffs but have read enough on other forums to understand the basics of the CCA

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#53 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by monkeynuts » 14 Nov 2014 08:22

Michelle wrote:
monkeynuts wrote:I used the GOODF route to a great success!

Whilst some of the ideologies seem 'wacky' to some if you dig down you can understand their thought process and reasoning!
It obviously works in some cases or they wouldn't have so many followers, where I can see a problem is if they took you to court, having to explain the process and reasoning to a judge may get a bit tricky. :?

Yes thats my thoughts.... I originally went down the charge them route for the same amount as the debt. But then changed it to per letter. They soon stopped and the debt went back to the creditor. In the end it comes down to the debt being worthless. Its all about timing. Get them at the right time then there is nothing they can do. The other method I tries was the No Contract - Adressee Not Known - that worked a couple of times.
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#54 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Michelle » 14 Nov 2014 11:59

jay72 wrote:From what I have read on GOODF they claim a win when a DCA return it to the creditor . I do not think you can class it as a win although it is a result. After all we all know that a DCA as opposed to a debt purchaser has no powers.
monkeynuts wrote: Yes thats my thoughts.... I originally went down the charge them route for the same amount as the debt. But then changed it to per letter. They soon stopped and the debt went back to the creditor. In the end it comes down to the debt being worthless. Its all about timing. Get them at the right time then there is nothing they can do.
DCAs are not the sharpest tools in the box. They employ robots who don't know what to do when someone challenges them and doesn't behave as expected, i.e. doesn't pick up the phone to discuss the account with them. They don't have the knowledge, time or inclination to argue the points raised on your letters and would rather use their time and resources dealing with people who are more likely to pay, if unsuccessful, they return the accounts to their clients. They would have a set timescale in which to collect or at least get a repayment plan set up, say, two or three months, then they return the account. A bit like estate agents, if they didn't sell your house during the contract period, you'd take it off the market and then use a different agent.
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#55 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Michelle » 14 Nov 2014 12:43

monkeynuts wrote: The other method I tries was the No Contract - Adressee Not Known - that worked a couple of times.
This is an old trick, I also tried it years ago and has worked so far, sending letters back saying I didn't live there. I wouldn't recommend it though, after reading so many stories from people who suddenly find themselves with a CCJ they didn't know about. :o

Creditors are allowed to send court papers to the debtor's last known address. If letters sent to your current address are returned, they can just issue a claim to any previous address they can find, even somewhere you haven't lived at for 10 years or more. You don't receive the papers, don't acknowledge or defend the claim, they obtain judgment by default.

The worst thing about this is that they can obtain judgment even for a statute barred debt. If you don't defend the claim saying it's statute barred, the court won't be aware of the fact.

It is possible to get a judgment set aside but you are required to show the claimant had your address if you apply on the basis of not having received the claim form.
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#56 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Andy » 14 Nov 2014 15:23

You don't receive the papers, don't acknowledge or defend the claim, they obtain judgment by default.

The worst thing about this is that they can obtain judgment even for a statute barred debt. If you don't defend the claim saying it's statute barred, the court won't be aware of the fact.
If this particular case occurs, once this is brought to the judges attention, is the judgement revoked? As there could not be a ruling that contradicts or supersedes a statute?
2nd Year University Law Student.

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#57 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Michelle » 14 Nov 2014 16:53

Andy wrote:
You don't receive the papers, don't acknowledge or defend the claim, they obtain judgment by default.

The worst thing about this is that they can obtain judgment even for a statute barred debt. If you don't defend the claim saying it's statute barred, the court won't be aware of the fact.
If this particular case occurs, once this is brought to the judges attention, is the judgement revoked? As there could not be a ruling that contradicts or supersedes a statute?
You'd apply to have the judgment set aside, showing you have a viable defence (SB is an absolute defence). You'd have to pay the £155 fee and fill in an N244, possibly attend a hearing and convince the court that they had your address yet they sent the papers to an old address.

A lot more hassle than receiving the court papers at your current address and submitting a SBd defence at no cost.
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#58 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by jay72 » 14 Nov 2014 18:16

I have to agree with Michelle
£155 is a lot of money for most people who are in serious debt to find. You would really not want to have the hassle of applying for a set aside.

I have seen quite a few claims struck out even when 100% enforceable because the debtor has used the CCA and sent a S77 or S78 request off and used the lack of response as a defence . That and the claimants not complying with a CPR request.

I have yet to see a claim defeated using FMOTL

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#59 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Michelle » 14 Nov 2014 21:03

jay72 wrote:I have to agree with Michelle
£155 is a lot of money for most people who are in serious debt to find. You would really not want to have the hassle of applying for a set aside.
Court fees can be waived in some cases such as if you are on a low income or on means-tested benefits. You need to look at Form ex160a: http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/for ... upto-6.pdf
jay72 wrote: I have seen quite a few claims struck out even when 100% enforceable because the debtor has used the CCA and sent a S77 or S78 request off and used the lack of response as a defence . That and the claimants not complying with a CPR request.

I have yet to see a claim defeated using FMOTL
The Consumer Credit Act and Civil Procedure Rules are your weapons to fight a money claim in court. If you use the three letter or similar method you will struggle to explain your arguments in court. These days FMOTL sites are well known and most solicitors will be able to identify the letters as templates provided by those sites. If the letters you sent to get rid of a debt collector are included in the claimant's bundle, you could be labelled a FMOTL debt avoider and prejudice your case.
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#60 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by angeleyes6 » 27 May 2015 09:34

Such a funny thread! :D

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#61 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by angeleyes6 » 27 May 2015 10:02

So funny :D

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#62 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by angeleyes6 » 27 Jan 2016 19:03

I find it is a good idea to go poke around on Financial Conduct Authority site to see what a named DCA company and Creditor has right to do or if anything on them that you can use against them to them-they don't have right to do business away from registered premises,certainly fidelite don't have any right to canvas off trade premises.

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#63 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by angeleyes6 » 27 Jan 2016 19:47

That is not to say i'm dissing this site 'cos i am not as it is excellent..but every little helps. There's also such things as Prove It Letters and asking for original signed consumer credit agreement to be supplied to you within 12 working days.

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#64 Re: Debt collectors are not bailiffs and have no authority

Post by Michelle » 28 Jan 2016 19:19

angeleyes6 wrote:That is not to say i'm dissing this site 'cos i am not as it is excellent..but every little helps. There's also such things as Prove It Letters and asking for original signed consumer credit agreement to be supplied to you within 12 working days.
Yes, there are such things, although if you are referring to the CCA request, they don't have to send you the original signed agreement. That may well have been the case in the past but there was a judgment in 2009, where the judge said a recon on the agreement was all that was needed. Carey v HSBC was the judgment.

This thread was just intended to highlight the difference between bailiffs and debt collectors because many people get them mixed up, it wasn't intended as a full guide to dealing with debt collectors. The thread is more than a year old and back in May last year, you seemed to have found it very funny, but you never said why. :xmas_rolleyes:
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