CCJ & Enforcement

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Hullaballoo
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#1 CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Hullaballoo » 12 Oct 2016 19:22

Hi everyone
Hope someone can help me sort through this issue. I will try to be concise but this saga has been going on 3 years plus.

I was told by an old neighbour someone had been chasing me at an old address they thought it was a bailiff. After some panic & brain racking I realised it could only be related to a dispute with the electricity provider I then had. I had been one of the customers affected by their incompetence & despite me chasing to pay them every couple of months I never received a bill for 3 years. In May 2015 I had some movement from them after I threatened to go to ombudsman. They generated a new account number & I ended up being landed with a massive 3 year bill which I used the "back billing" clause & they produced a new bill generated on hypothetical numbers of £1500. I said they needed to demonstrate how many units I had used & a what price baring in mind they had never read the meter either. All their readings were guesses so my argument was they really had no idea how much I used & a what price so it was unfair that their incompetence was going to land me with such a huge bill. They said they would call back following week & allow me time to think about it.
Of course they never did, in fact I rang them 3 months later August 2015 to inform them I was moving house & they needed to come read the meter, of course they never did. They had my email address & mobile number as I explained the landline would be cut off due to the house move.
Fast forward 13 months after house move I had parcelled all their documents into a packing box, life took over & I didn't give them another thought.
I have now discovered they instigated a CCJ at my old address in August 2016 & have instructed bailiffs to enforce. Done through Northampton.
Its wrong, they knew full well I wasn't at that address as I had told them & the new tenant had taken on the supply so why serve court papers there? They had my contact details I would have cheerfully defended in court. I now face the prospect of bailiffs turning up at my new address.
Where do I start?

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Michelle
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#2 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Michelle » 12 Oct 2016 19:43

Hi,

Unfortunately the issue of default CCJs obtained by sending court papers to an old address is so big it was front page news last month. From what you say above, it sounds like you have enough arguments to successfully defend the claim. It also sounds like they were aware of your new address yet chose to issue the claim at an old address. Looks like you have a good case to apply to get the CCJ set aside. Although by no means guaranteed, it's usually advisable to start by writing to the judgment creditor asking them to consent to the judgment to be set aside, outlining your reasons, i.e. that they had your current address yet served the claim at an old address and that you would be able to defend the claim as noted above.

If they don't agree, the next step is to fill in an N244 form: https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.just ... 44-eng.pdf which, sadly carries a £255 fee. :x See if you qualify for remission of the fee: http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/for ... upto-6.pdf

The set aside application should have a witness statement, draft defence and draft directions attached, we'll go back to that a bit later, should they refuse to agree to set aside by consent.

If the CCJ was set aside, the power to enforce it would also cease to exist. Even if the CCJ stays on, it is possible to apply to suspend the warrant using form N245, which carries a £50 fee: http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmcts ... 45-eng.pdf

Bailiffs enforcing civil debts cannot force entry, however, they can gain peaceful entry through an unlocked door. If you have a vehicle parked outside, it can be clamped, so it's best to park it in private land belonging to someone else (not your own). Vehicles can also be clamped on public roads.
Listen very carefully, I shall post this only once:
Anything posted by me is from my own knowledge and experience, it is not legal advice or the official views of this forum.

Knowledge is Power.

Hullaballoo
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#3 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Hullaballoo » 12 Oct 2016 20:59

Thank you for your detailed reply.

Due to the tactics already used by creditor I don't think its worth asking them to agree to set aside. They will probably just direct bailiffs to new address.

I'm annoyed its going to cost me £225 I take it I can ask for costs?
Is anything enforceable if it has a different address?
Should I send car docs off tomorrow to put in daughters name as there is no secure private land around where I live?

Many thanks for your help

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Schedule 12
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#4 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Schedule 12 » 12 Oct 2016 21:41

Ask for your costs on for N244. The court can only say no.

After all, it was the creditor who got the address wrong.
Run this Checklist. If no joy, then we'll fix it
dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk

Hullaballoo
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#5 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Hullaballoo » 12 Oct 2016 21:56

I hope & pray I can get this all stopped. I need to protect my car as I need it for my young son he has a hidden disability, I'm his carer & my husband is the only earner & can't get to work unless I drive him.

This is a nightmare. The law should be changed to stop court documents being produced at addresses the creditor full well knows is not the correct address.

How am I supposed to get all this done in a very short space of time? I've no idea where to start with the form.

Can they seize goods if their documents have the old address on?

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Michelle
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#6 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Michelle » 12 Oct 2016 22:23

Hullaballoo wrote:I hope & pray I can get this all stopped. I need to protect my car as I need it for my young son he has a hidden disability, I'm his carer & my husband is the only earner & can't get to work unless I drive him.
Does the car have a disabled badge?
Hullaballoo wrote: This is a nightmare. The law should be changed to stop court documents being produced at addresses the creditor full well knows is not the correct address.
Definitely. Just take a look at the article linked to here: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3918 There have been nearly A MILLION default judgments in the past few years. :o
Hullaballoo wrote: How am I supposed to get all this done in a very short space of time? I've no idea where to start with the form.

Can they seize goods if their documents have the old address on?
The attached files should give you a starting point. The witness statement should tell your own story. It's a good idea to attach a draft defence, based around the points you mentioned on your opening post. Do post up if you have any questions.

You need to download the N244 form from the link I posted above and fill it in, the attached document is just for reference.
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Listen very carefully, I shall post this only once:
Anything posted by me is from my own knowledge and experience, it is not legal advice or the official views of this forum.

Knowledge is Power.

Hullaballoo
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Joined: 12 Oct 2016 18:32

#7 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Hullaballoo » 12 Oct 2016 23:09

Thank you for your help :Michelle & everyone else.

I can't get a disabled badge for him in this town as he only get lower rate mobility & higher rate care, apparently you have to have High rate of both to get blue badge.

I will start going through the attachments tomorrow morning & filling them in.

Another thought can bailiffs take goods that belong to my husband or children? I have not worked for 10 years as I'm my sons carer so therefore I haven't paid for anything. The car was purchased by husband by obtaining a bank loan that he is paying. The debt is in just my name.

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Michelle
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#8 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Michelle » 13 Oct 2016 14:11

They can only take goods that belong to the debtor, although that includes jointly owned goods. Nothing exclusively used by children, however, I'm assuming you won't allow entry, nor will you leave any doors unlocked (I'm really bad with that!) The car would be the main concern but they shouldn't interfere with it if it doesn't belong to you.
Listen very carefully, I shall post this only once:
Anything posted by me is from my own knowledge and experience, it is not legal advice or the official views of this forum.

Knowledge is Power.

Hullaballoo
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Joined: 12 Oct 2016 18:32

#9 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Hullaballoo » 13 Oct 2016 17:26

:Michelle, sorry I'm not sure how to use forum tags etc my forum skills are somewhat lacking.

What constitutes joint ownership? The V5 is in my name as registered keeper & insurance docs, as I'm the only driver. Husband paid for the car cash from his bank account after obtaining the loan, which he is still paying. Does he own it? or I? or Jointly?

I phoned around a few solicitors today to see if they would take on this complex case.....£220 per hour & 1/8 of that for letters! Wish I had trained in the legal field!

I also read your wonderful exemplars for the N244. Thank you. However I also became freaked out & overwhelmed by what where & how I need to challenge this hence my scurry to find pricing for solicitors. I'm going to prepare my forms asap. I have mountains of evidence, logs of conversations who said what & when etc

I feel weak in the fact, I contacted the company & explained they had served the papers with knowledge I didn't live there & that I would challenge in court. I also informed them I would re-ignite the ombudsman case I had. They called off any action by bailiffs & I have it in an email until they investigate.

I have no issue with accepting probably I should be paying for 12 months supply although I was only billed finally in July 2015 but need them to prove what I used at what rate & when considering they never took a reading in 3 years. As the bill they plucked from thin air is dated July 2015, I left the property in August 2015 & they obtained CCj in August 2016 without me being able to defend it, I feel grieved.

Should I actually be held accountable for the bill they are chasing me for, under the back billing code of practice, 13 months after they generated a fictional bill?

Hullaballoo
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#10 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Hullaballoo » 13 Oct 2016 18:53

@Michelle ? gosh I'm rubbish at computer stuff!

Hullaballoo
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#11 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Hullaballoo » 13 Oct 2016 18:56

@Michelle ?

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Michelle
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#12 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Michelle » 13 Oct 2016 21:13

Hullaballoo wrote::Michelle, sorry I'm not sure how to use forum tags etc my forum skills are somewhat lacking.
No worries, I'm sorry I was a bit tied up earlier. :oops:

What constitutes joint ownership? The V5 is in my name as registered keeper & insurance docs, as I'm the only driver. Husband paid for the car cash from his bank account after obtaining the loan, which he is still paying. Does he own it? or I? or Jointly?[/quote]
There's every indication that you own it, and it would be hard to argue otherwise. Have you any idea what sort of loan is the car loan?
Hullaballoo wrote: I phoned around a few solicitors today to see if they would take on this complex case.....£220 per hour & 1/8 of that for letters! Wish I had trained in the legal field!
It shouldn't be a very complex case, they may want to make it sound like that for obviou$ rea$on$. There shouldn't be many letters to write for a set aside application.
Hullaballoo wrote: I also read your wonderful exemplars for the N244. Thank you. However I also became freaked out & overwhelmed by what where & how I need to challenge this hence my scurry to find pricing for solicitors. I'm going to prepare my forms asap. I have mountains of evidence, logs of conversations who said what & when etc

I feel weak in the fact, I contacted the company & explained they had served the papers with knowledge I didn't live there & that I would challenge in court. I also informed them I would re-ignite the ombudsman case I had. They called off any action by bailiffs & I have it in an email until they investigate.
That's a very good start!
Hullaballoo wrote: I have no issue with accepting probably I should be paying for 12 months supply although I was only billed finally in July 2015 but need them to prove what I used at what rate & when considering they never took a reading in 3 years. As the bill they plucked from thin air is dated July 2015, I left the property in August 2015 & they obtained CCj in August 2016 without me being able to defend it, I feel grieved.
If the CCJ is set aside, they can re-activate the claim, hence the need for a defence. At that point you could strike a deal to pay what you actually owe without it being recorded as a CCJ.
Hullaballoo wrote: Should I actually be held accountable for the bill they are chasing me for, under the back billing code of practice, 13 months after they generated a fictional bill?
You really need to sit down and get all your facts and figures together so you can use them in your defence. Additionally, you'll have to submit a witness statement, that will be the place to tell the full story. You may want to post it up here before you submit the application.
Listen very carefully, I shall post this only once:
Anything posted by me is from my own knowledge and experience, it is not legal advice or the official views of this forum.

Knowledge is Power.

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Schedule 12
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#13 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Schedule 12 » 14 Oct 2016 09:14

Here is how to apply to stay a writ. http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/St ... r-HCEO.htm
Run this Checklist. If no joy, then we'll fix it
dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk

stopbailiff
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#14 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by stopbailiff » 14 Oct 2016 10:43

Hullaballoo wrote:Thank you for your help :Michelle & everyone else.

I can't get a disabled badge for him in this town as he only get lower rate mobility & higher rate care, apparently you have to have High rate of both to get blue badge.

I will start going through the attachments tomorrow morning & filling them in.

Another thought can bailiffs take goods that belong to my husband or children? I have not worked for 10 years as I'm my sons carer so therefore I haven't paid for anything. The car was purchased by husband by obtaining a bank loan that he is paying. The debt is in just my name.
Actually, the rules on blue badge are not simply black or white. In addition, there is this concept called "disability by association", so where your son has a disability it would be either indirect discrimination or its effect, if the council were to stop you from having a blue badge for your car. The council simply cannot discriminate against you either directly or indirectly.

stopbailiff
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#15 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by stopbailiff » 14 Oct 2016 11:47

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Michelle
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#16 Re: CCJ & Enforcement

Post by Michelle » 14 Oct 2016 12:24

jasonDWB wrote:Here is how to apply to stay a writ. http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/St ... r-HCEO.htm
It doesn't look like it was transferred to the High Court for enforcement:
Hullaballoo wrote:.
I have now discovered they instigated a CCJ at my old address in August 2016 & have instructed bailiffs to enforce. Done through Northampton.
Listen very carefully, I shall post this only once:
Anything posted by me is from my own knowledge and experience, it is not legal advice or the official views of this forum.

Knowledge is Power.

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