Discussion on limitation periods for mortgage shortfalls and secured loans

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stopbailiff
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#1 Re: Discussion on limitation periods for mortgage shortfalls and secured loans

Post by stopbailiff » 12 Oct 2016 13:08

Amandaj wrote:It's for rent arrears and repairs for an old council property. I worried they will try and take my husbands property even though the debt was incurred long before I was married. I'm quite concerned that the debt has increased so much. The original debt was 5409.00 and is now at enforcement stage 2 and is 9681.96

I assume the Council actually had a successful judgement for default ie at County Court (or, CCJ) against you up to now? You say 'Sheriff' so I assume you're in Scotland? However, there are rules for co-owners, ie the onus is on you to prove your husband owns certain property, called 'chattel.' Proof of ownership under commercial law is where the legal owner transferred the property to your husband. So, does he have receipts or other proof, if it's a car, registration document and Insurance etc, prove ownership.

As for the point on the council making claims, since a CCJ or Scottish equivalent has likely occurred for the High Court to have issued a Writ against you, is either a none starter or too late in the day. As it applies to land, the claim is likely 12 years, and not 6 for purely contract claims.

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Michelle
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#2 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Michelle » 12 Oct 2016 21:12

stopbailiff wrote:
I assume the Council actually had a successful judgement for default ie at County Court (or, CCJ) against you up to now? You say 'Sheriff' so I assume you're in Scotland?
The term "Sheriff" was also used to refer to HCEOs in England and Wales, although it's a little outdated now, there is such a thing as the Sheriff's Office in England and Wales: http://thesheriffsoffice.com/high-court-enforcement
stopbailiff wrote:However, there are rules for co-owners, ie the onus is on you to prove your husband owns certain property, called 'chattel.' Proof of ownership under commercial law is where the legal owner transferred the property to your husband. So, does he have receipts or other proof, if it's a car, registration document and Insurance etc, prove ownership.
How many people do you know, who have receipts for everything they owned? I wouldn't even know where to find the ones for my TV which is under a year old, and some items of higher value were inherited, which is likely to be the case with many people.

In any case, the HCEOs cannot force entry and the OP doesn't have to let them in. Vehicles parked outside should be their main concern.
stopbailiff wrote:As for the point on the council making claims, since a CCJ or Scottish equivalent has likely occurred for the High Court to have issued a Writ against you, is either a none starter or too late in the day. As it applies to land, the claim is likely 12 years, and not 6 for purely contract claims.
This is incorrect. s.19 LA 1980: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58/section/19 says the following:
19 Time limit for actions to recover rent.

No action shall be brought, [F1and the power conferred by section 72(1) of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 shall not be exercisable], to recover arrears of rent, or damages in respect of arrears of rent, after the expiration of six years from the date on which the arrears became due.
The 12 years apply to mortgages and secured loans. :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek:

However, the above limits do not apply once the debt is subject to a judgment. :geek:
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#3 Discussion on limitation periods for mortgage shortfalls and secured loans

Post by Pote Snitkin » 12 Oct 2016 21:59

I predict an essay on how someone studied land law.....

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#4 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Michelle » 12 Oct 2016 22:25

Pote Snitkin wrote:I predict an essay on how someone studied land law.....
...so do I... and I've got my fingers on the relevant button... :mrgreen:
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#5 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 14 Oct 2016 09:56

I know certain land claims are 12 years, insofar as not all the mortgage is 12 years, I believe it's either interest or capital but am not sure which one. The op has to maintain the property (covenant) in land, so I was thinking this could be a 12 year claim. See! not an essay

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#6 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Michelle » 14 Oct 2016 12:12

stopbailiff wrote:I know certain land claims are 12 years, insofar as not all the mortgage is 12 years, I believe it's either interest or capital but am not sure which one. The op has to maintain the property (covenant) in land, so I was thinking this could be a 12 year claim.
It is 12 years for capital as per s.20 (1) LA 1980:
20 Time limit for actions to recover money secured by a mortgage or charge or to recover proceeds of the sale of land.

(1)No action shall be brought to recover—
(a)any principal sum of money secured by a mortgage or other charge on property (whether real or personal); or
(b)proceeds of the sale of land;
after the expiration of twelve years from the date on which the right to receive the money accrued.
Six years for interest as per s.20(5)
(5)Subject to subsections (6) and (7) below, no action to recover arrears of interest payable in respect of any sum of money secured by a mortgage or other charge or payable in respect of proceeds of the sale of land, or to recover damages in respect of such arrears shall be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the interest became due.
The amount owed in most cases will be capital rather than interest because any outstanding interest is taken from the proceeds of the sale before capital. :geek:
stopbailiff wrote:See! not an essay
See! no need for a law degree. :mrgreen:
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#7 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 14 Oct 2016 12:24

Technically, it depends on the mortgage type - as it may be an interest only mortgage with the capital being paid as a lump sum via an endowment.

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#8 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Michelle » 14 Oct 2016 13:10

stopbailiff wrote:Technically, it depends on the mortgage type - as it may be an interest only mortgage with the capital being paid as a lump sum via an endowment.
So you fall in arrears with your mortgage interest payments, unlike unsecured debts, you can't just ride them out for six years because the lender can obtain a possession order long before that. At that point, you can pay off the arrears, agree to repay them over a period of time or capitalise them. Neither scenario would give rise to limitation. If you are not able to do any of the above, the property will have to be sold, either by yourself if you are able to do so or by the lender after repossession. The money from the sale will be applied to repay the outstanding interest first, any shortfall will be capital. You can't choose to apply the available funds to the capital and leave the interest outstanding instead. :geek:
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#9 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Tony72 » 14 Oct 2016 16:28

Is the Limitations act of any real relevance here?

The important thing is dealing with the issues at hand and as it seems a CCJ has been issued Limitations Act is irrelavant

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#10 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Michelle » 14 Oct 2016 16:58

Tony72 wrote:Is the Limitations act of any real relevance here?
Not really, no, and I did say that the limitation periods do not apply to debts subject to a judgment.
Tony72 wrote:I
The important thing is dealing with the issues at hand and as it seems a CCJ has been issued Limitations Act is irrelavant
Indeed, but stopbailiff likes to put forward his legal perspective.

As all this discussion about limitation periods is not relevant to this OP's case, I reckon I should split those posts to a new thread. :geek:
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#11 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 15 Oct 2016 09:18

Yes, I know that as a CCJ is already a cause of action.

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#12 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Michelle » 15 Oct 2016 10:11

stopbailiff wrote:Yes, I know that as a CCJ is already a cause of action.
Actually, a CCJ is the result of the action. The LA says "an action... shall not be brought..." and a CCJ is the result of action that was already brought. If you had a deadline to do something and you've already done it, that deadline ceases to apply.
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#13 Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 15 Oct 2016 10:18

Michelle, ok here's my level, and a source for my knowledge of Limitation actions...

download/file.php?mode=view&id=2418
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stopbailiff
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#14 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 15 Oct 2016 10:20

I have actually forgotten more law than most of legalbeagles know collectively.

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#15 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 15 Oct 2016 10:21

In other words, I don't do basic Google searches for answers...unless it's a legal authority, or other practical sources

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Amy
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#16 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Amy » 15 Oct 2016 10:22

stopbailiff wrote:I have actually forgotten more law than most of legalbeagles know collectively.
My dog probably has that claim also.

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#17 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 15 Oct 2016 10:27

Amy, I do apologise if am coming across as arrogant, I really don't mean to. It is just very annoying when Tuco has called me thick, Pote calls me a fantasist, and both Pote individually and or in concert have been making attempts to ban me. Pote also said on his post 'ignore member Stopbailiff' They refer to me a Drocca - where it is obvious this Drocca character is not me. This is why am on the defensive, but for which I do apologise.

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#18 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Pote Snitkin » 15 Oct 2016 10:30

Where are these 'attempts' to ban you. I don't want you banned, you are a source of great hilarity. However, I do want you restricted from genuine debtor's threads to stop you hijacking them with bullplop.

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#19 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Amy » 15 Oct 2016 10:34

stopbailiff wrote:Amy, I do apologise if am coming across as arrogant, I really don't mean to. It is just very annoying when Tuco has called me thick, Pote calls me a fantasist, and both Pote individually and or in concert have been making attempts to ban me. Pote also said on his post 'ignore member Stopbailiff' They refer to me a Drocca - where it is obvious this Drocca character is not me. This is why am on the defensive, but for which I do apologise.
I do the banning round here, nobody else and I really do feel that if you could just calm down the attitude and be more accepting of the views of others and accept that members are not automatically wrong simply because they have not studied law for 47 years, then we can all get along swimmingly.

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#20 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Tuco » 15 Oct 2016 10:45

stopbailiff wrote:Amy, I do apologise if am coming across as arrogant, I really don't mean to. It is just very annoying when Tuco has called me thick, Pote calls me a fantasist, and both Pote individually and or in concert have been making attempts to ban me. Pote also said on his post 'ignore member Stopbailiff' They refer to me a Drocca - where it is obvious this Drocca character is not me. This is why am on the defensive, but for which I do apologise.
Drocca

It is obvious that you are this Drocca character-Your styles are identical, you are both from Liverpool and you both cut and paste the same irrelevant legislation, without even attempting to understand what it is that you are posting. Also, Drocca has a habit of making 2,3,or 4 posts one after another, just like you do. The only other person who does this, is the chimp, over on CAG.

I would also urge debtors to ignore you as you confuse matters with your drivel. You make no attempt to change, despite being told by everyone on here that you are wrong and despite being banned from LB.

I personally think there are serious issues regarding your personality and/or state of mind. "Thick" is the tip of the iceberg. You have also fired numerous insults at me over the past few weeks so don't play the victim here.

If you really want to apologise, start by accepting that you are wrong on occasions. Don't go bulldozing in on threads, posting endless pasted legislation that will confuse a debtor. Try to explain the situation in practical terms that the debtor will understand. Matbe then, people will get off your case.

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#21 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Michelle » 15 Oct 2016 11:13

stopbailiff wrote:I have actually forgotten more law than most of legalbeagles know collectively.
That isn't too much to say, is it?

You obviously have a problem with Legal Beagles, I've got some news for you: you're not the only one! :evil: If you are hoping that, with your posts here, you will impress them, forget it! :D They are too arrogant to admit they are wrong, even when it has been blindingly obvious they've made the wrong decision, and that has happened time and time again. :cry:

Don't expect the Mad Dogs to be reading your posts here and saying: "gee, we were wrong to ban him, look at all the knowledge he has". Their decisions are all political and based on whatever suits their own hidden agenda at the time. Real knowledge doesn't come into it. :evil:
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#22 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 15 Oct 2016 11:28

Tuco wrote:
stopbailiff wrote:Amy, I do apologise if am coming across as arrogant, I really don't mean to. It is just very annoying when Tuco has called me thick, Pote calls me a fantasist, and both Pote individually and or in concert have been making attempts to ban me. Pote also said on his post 'ignore member Stopbailiff' They refer to me a Drocca - where it is obvious this Drocca character is not me. This is why am on the defensive, but for which I do apologise.
Drocca

It is obvious that you are this Drocca character-Your styles are identical, you are both from Liverpool and you both cut and paste the same irrelevant legislation, without even attempting to understand what it is that you are posting. Also, Drocca has a habit of making 2,3,or 4 posts one after another, just like you do. The only other person who does this, is the chimp, over on CAG.

I would also urge debtors to ignore you as you confuse matters with your drivel. You make no attempt to change, despite being told by everyone on here that you are wrong and despite being banned from LB.

I personally think there are serious issues regarding your personality and/or state of mind. "Thick" is the tip of the iceberg. You have also fired numerous insults at me over the past few weeks so don't play the victim here.

If you really want to apologise, start by accepting that you are wrong on occasions. Don't go bulldozing in on threads, posting endless pasted legislation that will confuse a debtor. Try to explain the situation in practical terms that the debtor will understand. Matbe then, people will get off your case.
Tuco, the sad thing is you simply cannot work out that am not Drocca, which is not just pathetic.

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#23 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 15 Oct 2016 12:02

download/file.php?mode=view&id=2420

Look at this, thick people do not study commercial law, hmm.

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#24 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Pote Snitkin » 15 Oct 2016 12:19

stopbailiff wrote:download/file.php?mode=view&id=2420

Look at this, thick people do not study commercial law, hmm.
Yes they do, they just don't understand it. I think I found a pic of you studying.
2868027.jpg
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#25 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 15 Oct 2016 12:20

Pote, hmm I see you have a nasty discriminatory nature. Thanks, this shows me your level.

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#26 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Pote Snitkin » 15 Oct 2016 12:22

No probs, you nutjob.

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#27 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Tony72 » 15 Oct 2016 15:55

Not sure where else to post but I had a notification, it seems that Michelle quoted me but it then says i am not authorised to read it.

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#28 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Michelle » 16 Oct 2016 11:14

Tony72 wrote:Not sure where else to post but I had a notification, it seems that Michelle quoted me but it then says i am not authorised to read it.
It's noting sinister, you asked whether limitation periods were relevant to this OP's issues (considering there is a CCJ already in place, otherwise there would be no HCEOs involved). I said no, not really when there is a judgment in place, then one of our members who claims to have studied law derailed the thread, and I moved the off topic posts here: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3998&p=58749#p58643 :ugeek:
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#29 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 16 Oct 2016 14:09

Claimed to have studied law you say? You can't help yourself despite I showed you all. To be fair, in terms of academic law and commercial in practice, not withstanding being university educated in any event, am probably the most academically qualified person on this website which should not be taken lightly.

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#30 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Pote Snitkin » 16 Oct 2016 14:13

Show us the certificates.

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#31 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 16 Oct 2016 14:16

Pote Snitkin wrote:Show us the certificates.
I showed you the pass for commercial law, this is sufficient.

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#32 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Pote Snitkin » 16 Oct 2016 14:24

No it's not. Show us the OU certificates.

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#33 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Amy » 16 Oct 2016 14:43

stopbailiff wrote:To be fair, in terms of academic law and commercial in practice, not withstanding being university educated in any event, am probably the most academically qualified person on this website which should not be taken lightly.
To be fair, how do you know this?

Simply because you love to preen yourself for all to see, does not mean others are not qualified or have as many qualifications as you claim to have.

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#34 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by Michelle » 16 Oct 2016 15:58

stopbailiff wrote:Claimed to have studied law you say? You can't help yourself despite I showed you all. To be fair, in terms of academic law and commercial in practice, not withstanding being university educated in any event, am probably the most academically qualified person on this website which should not be taken lightly.
I don't know whether you are, or aren't the most qualified person on here, since the rest of us are not constantly bragging about our qualifications, however, as for not taking it lightly, well, this isn't University Challenge. You can't expect us to agree with everything you post purely on the strength of what you say you have studied. Even if you have actually studied all that, it has been shown, time and time again, that academic studies don't necessarily translate into sound advice. :?

On this thread, you said that the limitation period for rent arrears was 12 years, :o I showed you that the LA actually said it was six. :geek: You then didn't know what kind of mortgage debt had a six year limitation v a 12 year limitation, :roll: I showed you which was which, and then also concluded that none of that was relevant when a judgment is already in place. :geek:

I can't just take for granted that everything you post is correct just because your (until now), alleged qualifications should not be taken lightly. :ugeek: :geek: :ugeek:
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#35 Re: Debt in maiden name

Post by stopbailiff » 17 Oct 2016 09:58

Michelle wrote:
stopbailiff wrote:Claimed to have studied law you say? You can't help yourself despite I showed you all. To be fair, in terms of academic law and commercial in practice, not withstanding being university educated in any event, am probably the most academically qualified person on this website which should not be taken lightly.
I don't know whether you are, or aren't the most qualified person on here, since the rest of us are not constantly bragging about our qualifications, however, as for not taking it lightly, well, this isn't University Challenge. You can't expect us to agree with everything you post purely on the strength of what you say you have studied. Even if you have actually studied all that, it has been shown, time and time again, that academic studies don't necessarily translate into sound advice. :?

On this thread, you said that the limitation period for rent arrears was 12 years, :o I showed you that the LA actually said it was six. :geek: You then didn't know what kind of mortgage debt had a six year limitation v a 12 year limitation, :roll: I showed you which was which, and then also concluded that none of that was relevant when a judgment is already in place. :geek:

I can't just take for granted that everything you post is correct just because your (until now), alleged qualifications should not be taken lightly. :ugeek: :geek: :ugeek:
"alleged qualifications" & ."even if you studied all that", you say. 1) you know I have studied all that - you have seen evidence of completion of at least 7 subjects in law (the transferrable foundation subjects, whether for the LPC or Cilex law Grad. diploma fast-track route); evidence of a commercial practice pass grade, notwithstanding other evidence showing my individual scores (which were copy and pastes initially) albeit you initially, but predictably, denied these were genuine grades which were later proven to be true. For a broader context, these law subjects are at least level 5 and level 6 of national qualifications' framework, for a broader context. Commercial law is a practice course not just an academic course for that matter. Pote says he has studied at A-level, which is level 3, so one up from GCSE standard which is at level 2.

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