Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Apply to Stay the Writ. Set Aside the Judgment. Apply for more time to pay. Stop the Bailiff. Cancel the Fees.
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Morgan8080
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#1 Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 27 May 2017 15:00

Hi
my husband has a debt with our council and owes £120

I let the bailiffs in as I didn't know my rights and they did A controlled goods agreement which I signed.

I missed a payment and we Spoke to council and they made us pay £700 and then £300 a month after I was pressured into making this and the £709 nearly skinned us and still haven't got back on track.

I have missed the £300 a month for 2 months now as we cannot afford it and bailiffs say no to a different arrangement .

I called them today and they said no and they will be doing a visit next week to gain entry.

Firstly what can I do?
I can't afford to pay the arrears of £600 and also the debt is in my husbands name only and it's me who has arranged it all and signed everything .. he doesn't even know.?

Shouldn't they have spoken to him and not me???

Also I am classed as a vulnerable person due to medical problems

Oh and it's my name on controllled agreement

Sorry we have £1500 left owing I think may be £1200 I'll check

Listed is sofa , tv , foot stool, tv stand, MacBook thenjn conservatory is sofa, tv, printer , drawer units, microwave, lamp , mirror

Most of all this is now gone and changed to new due to having a sewerage leak through kitchen and living room and the insurance paying for it all to be replaced. So what they have listed is now not there except car, MacBook, tv in bedroom and printer.
I think I can prove all these in my name.


Pleas help?

Morgan8080
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#2 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 27 May 2017 15:05

Can I put in a n244?

I need time to stave off action so I can go through all the council tax bills and accounts with the council as put the bill all in one place . I have emailed council and my local councillor

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#3 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Schedule 12 » 28 May 2017 14:20

Morgan8080 wrote:
27 May 2017 15:00
Hi
my husband has a debt with our council and owes £120

I let the bailiffs in as I didn't know my rights and they did A controlled goods agreement which I signed.

Is it valid? It must comply with all of this: http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/TC ... ion14.html

I missed a payment and we Spoke to council and they made us pay £700 and then £300 a month after I was pressured into making this and the £709 nearly skinned us and still haven't got back on track.

I have missed the £300 a month for 2 months now as we cannot afford it and bailiffs say no to a different arrangement .

I called them today and they said no and they will be doing a visit next week to gain entry.
If you are paying the sum, and the bailiff wants to break entry then he could well be vexatious because you have made the effort to pay.



Firstly what can I do?

Contact the council.

The Department for Communities and Local Government has published an official document called the Guidance on Enforcement of Council Tax arrears. See This Document. On page 8 it provides for a local authority to return the account from bailiff administration and allow you to propose a repayment schedule you can afford.



Clause 4.4, if a bailiff is trying to force you to make payments you cannot afford then you can write to the council asking them to comply with the above guidelines and follow clause 4.5 by exercising its discretionary right to return the account to town hall control as a gesture of goodwill to protect you from further punitive action by the bailiff.


Bailiffs must not pressure a debtor to make unrealistic offers, paragraph 24 of the Taking Control of Goods, National Standards 2014.

This template letter will help you get started, it gives all the above regulations and gives the council an opportunity to avail itself to them and proposes a repayment of the arrears at a rate you can afford. Alternatively, you can use this letter courtesy of Mark1960 or this letter
I can't afford to pay the arrears of £600 and also the debt is in my husbands name only and it's me who has arranged it all and signed everything .. he doesn't even know.?
The controlled goods is not valid as far as the hunband is concerned. That was the decision in H v Sandwell MBC [1992] Legal Action August P15. Magistrates held that process was irregular so far as the other spouse was concerned.



Shouldn't they have spoken to him and not me???
Yes. The liability is not held jointly or severally when the liability order is in one name.


Also I am classed as a vulnerable person due to medical problems

This may well apply if you are the only person at home. http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Ba ... eholds.htm




Oh and it's my name on controllled agreement
It's a fail.

The liability order is not in your name. Only the debtor can sign, or person having thee debtors authority, e.g. a co-director of a debtor company or attorney under a Lasting Power of Attorney.





Sorry we have £1500 left owing I think may be £1200 I'll check

Listed is sofa , tv , foot stool, tv stand, MacBook thenjn conservatory is sofa, tv, printer , drawer units, microwave, lamp , mirror

Most of all this is now gone and changed to new due to having a sewerage leak through kitchen and living room and the insurance paying for it all to be replaced. So what they have listed is now not there except car, MacBook, tv in bedroom and printer.
I think I can prove all these in my name.


Pleas help?
Bailiffs aren't interested in taking that kind of gear. There is no monetary value in household nick-nacks. a Macbook contains personal data and cannot be taken because it cannot be sold. There are bank details stored on it and bailiff indemnity insurers will not cover bailiffs taking computer hardware: This article explains more: http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Se ... nsoles.htm
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Morgan8080
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#4 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 28 May 2017 15:30

Wow thank you for such a comprehensive answer to my questions.
I did check the controlled goods act I signed and it's in his name but he has no idea I hate worrying him.
So what's my next step on Tuesday... speak to council? Do I call bristow and sutor too? Do I tell them there's no point trying to come and take anything as it's not in his name .

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#5 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Schedule 12 » 28 May 2017 15:56

Morgan8080 wrote:
28 May 2017 15:30
Wow thank you for such a comprehensive answer to my questions.
I did check the controlled goods act I signed and it's in his name but he has no idea I hate worrying him.
So what's my next step on Tuesday... speak to council?
No.

Do I call bristow and sutor too?
No.
Do I tell them there's no point trying to come and take anything as it's not in his name .
No.


Just follow the above.
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Morgan8080
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#6 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 28 May 2017 16:12

So I should sent a letter to the council?

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#7 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Schedule 12 » 28 May 2017 17:00

Yes and copy by email to the CEO: You can get the council CEO email address here: http://www.ceoemail.com/uk-government-e ... ukcouncils
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#8 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 30 May 2017 08:58

But the baliffs wanted to come today they said and am guessing they will say they want 2 days or they'll take goods. How can I stop this and stop more fees.

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#9 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 04 Aug 2017 11:00

After some arguing and me proving car was in my name they agreed to Remove it from controlled goods agreement, I sent message to them 20th July asking what my payments would be , they tried calling they said but I was on holiday and I got back to a letter last night saying he wanted goods or money in full. I said there is nothing on the controlled goods agreement other than tv and bedside drawers and he hung up on me.
I called office and they won't discuss it they said it's the enforcement agent who has to deal with it and I wasn't allowed to talk to a manager as they were fully trained to deal with it.
I proposed £80 a month payment which is more than they'd make removing some drawers and a lamp but no one will discuss it and the enforcement agent is very uncooperative and rude!!!
What on earth do I do

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#10 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Schedule 12 » 05 Aug 2017 16:50

Contact the council.

The Department for Communities and Local Government has published an official document called the Guidance on Enforcement of Council Tax arrears. See This Document. On page 8 it provides for a local authority to return the account from bailiff administration and allow you to propose a repayment schedule you can afford.



Clause 4.4, if a bailiff is trying to force you to make payments you cannot afford then you can write to the council asking them to comply with the above guidelines and follow clause 4.5 by exercising its discretionary right to return the account to town hall control as a gesture of goodwill to protect you from further punitive action by the bailiff.


Bailiffs must not pressure a debtor to make unrealistic offers, paragraph 24 of the Taking Control of Goods, National Standards 2014.

This template letter will help you get started, it gives all the above regulations and gives the council an opportunity to avail itself to them and proposes a repayment of the arrears at a rate you can afford. Alternatively, you can use this letter courtesy of Mark1960 or this letter
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#11 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Schedule 12 » 05 Aug 2017 17:08

I see you have been followed around the internet by a troll offering bailiff advice. You need to be aware the forum over there works to a different agenda. This one. https://marstongroup.co.uk/team-member/marc-gander/

Treat the advice appropriately

Can you let us know in confidence if anybody sends you a private message on there.
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Morgan8080
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#12 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 07 Aug 2017 09:27

I've had no private messages

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#13 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 07 Aug 2017 09:29

Who's advice do I follow

JimUk1
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#14 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by JimUk1 » 07 Aug 2017 09:35

Morgan8080 wrote:
07 Aug 2017 09:29
Who's advice do I follow
Follow the advice of alreadyexists

Bailiff advice is a woman who knows very little about bailiffs but has an extremely over inflated opinion of herself. She is obsessed with this forum because the owner set up a rival enterprise to hers. Dodgeball and Wonkeydonkey are 2 uneducated idiots who know nothing and who just post when instructed to by Bailiff Advice

If in doubt, read this thread and watch how hard Dodgeball tried to stop the debtor succeeding. Also notice in post #14 how bailiff advice again gives the incorrect and inaccurate information regarding joint liability.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo ... d***/page5
Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#15 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Aug 2017 09:38

Dodgeball, Bailiff Adivce and Wonkeydonkey are part of a gang of 4 that will always argue in favour of the bailiffs, urging you to pay them and to never complain. Alreadyexists has given you the advice you need - the CGA is invalid as the debt is not yours and the debtor didn't know you'd signed it.

The council remain liable for all actions the bailiff takes and you must take any complaint to them. Do not be fobbed off by their excuses - they must act, simple as that. If you have any further problems just post back.

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#16 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 07 Aug 2017 09:53

Thank you

Just to clarify..... I should write to council using a template given
The council said they couldn't intervene as I hadn't shown willingness to make payments ... I explained I paid £700 then couldn't afford any more payments and then since march I have been asking and aegueming as to what payment I should be making. So on Friday I just paid £100 online to bristow and sutor and proposed £100 a month payment . The council said they can't refuse any payment I make. I just feel the council won't step in .

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#17 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by JimUk1 » 07 Aug 2017 09:54

An example of how thick and stupid Bailiff Advice is, is her continuing suggestions that being urged to question the validity of the CGA is somehow "lulling you into a false sense of security" In reality, the woman is just seething that someone else has pointed this out and not her. Obviously, to normal, sane and rational people, challenging something is not of course holding a fales sense of security, it is simply exercising your right to question whether a course of action has been carried out in accordance with legislation. Nobody has told you that you only have to pay £100 because the agreement is invalid. This is just further evidence of how stupid Bailiff Advice is.

She is also trying to blame you for telling the bailiffs that new goods have been taken onto the premises. The blame lies clearly at the door of bailiff advice, who in post #15 told you to inform B&S that the goods had been damaged by flood. She even suggested inviting B&S round to inspect the skip FFS. The woman is a total idiot who simply hasn't a clue.
Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#18 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Aug 2017 09:55

You should see the disgraceful post just made by Dodgeball.

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#19 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by JimUk1 » 07 Aug 2017 09:58

Morgan8080 wrote:
07 Aug 2017 09:53
Thank you

Just to clarify..... I should write to council using a template given
The council said they couldn't intervene as I hadn't shown willingness to make payments ... I explained I paid £700 then couldn't afford any more payments and then since march I have been asking and aegueming as to what payment I should be making. So on Friday I just paid £100 online to bristow and sutor and proposed £100 a month payment . The council said they can't refuse any payment I make. I just feel the council won't step in .
Everything must be in your husband's name. Everything must come from him. You should not be mentioned in the letter.

Get all the bullet points in that are listed in post #68 of CAG, in the order that they are listed. There is no real need to elaborate on what has gone on Your only grievance is that £300 a month is too high and you cannot afford this. Your argument will be supported by the I&E.
Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#20 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by JimUk1 » 07 Aug 2017 10:01

Pote Snitkin wrote:
07 Aug 2017 09:55
You should see the disgraceful post just made by Dodgeball.
Morgan has Dodgeball sussed alright :lol:
You seem to be an internet troll
PS Morgan - We fondly refer to Dodgeball as "the chimp" because he is so thick (as you have seen by his ridiculous suggestion that you have committed an offence)
Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#21 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by JimUk1 » 07 Aug 2017 10:13

If you want to get your "help" from silly forum who rely on made up legislation to support their fanciful ideas, that is a matter for you.
As opposed to getting advice from 3 imbeciles who don't know their arse from their elbows as far as bailiffs are concerned?

I am pointing out that you should consider carefully before making a complaint. This is supported by the legislation provided.
Why consider carefully? Will they put her in jail for the rest of her life if she fails? What has she possibly got to lose by complaining? Should we just blithely accept that we are bound by agreements that we had no prior knowledge of? What legislation "supports" your silly idea?


[quote You misrepresented yourself in order to avoid goods being taken, obstruction of the bailiff in the performance of his duty.[/quote]
Are you completely devoid of brain cells? How the hell has she obstructed a bailiff? She cooperated impeccably with him. Furthermore, how did she misrepresent herself? As the debtor is a man and she is a woman, it would be pretty damned hard to misrepresent herself. The goods would not have been taken on the 1st visit in any case.

2 You interfered with controlled goods.
How did she? By clearing out a health hazard from her home?
Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#22 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Aug 2017 10:14

This is what he believes Morgan is guilty of:
  • You misrepresented yourself in order to avoid goods being taken, obstruction of the bailiff in the performance of his duty.

    You interfered with controlled goods.
I wonder if he will ever get round to explaining how exactly? Be assured Morgan that you have not misrepresented yourself, nor interfered with controlled goods. The bailiff knew you weren't the debtor yet still forced you to sign the CGA. If it was me, I'd argue that the council need to withdraw the bailiffs and allow you (or hubby) to set up a direct payment arrangement.

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#23 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by JimUk1 » 07 Aug 2017 10:29

Dear Sir/Madam

Reference number (insert your council tax reference)

I wish to instigate a formal complaint regarding the way that my council tax arrears are being enforced. I have previously tried to discuss this matter with the recovery manager at the council. However, he has stated that this matter is with B&S and as such I need to deal directly with them. When I contacted B&S, I was referred to an individual enforcement agent who has refused to listen to my pleas to repay the debt at a reasonable, affordable and sustainable rate.

The grounds for my complaint are that I simply cannot afford the £300 per month that is being demanded. Furthermore, a controlled goods agreement has been signed by my wife on my behalf, agreeing to repay the debt at £300 per month. I wish to inform you that this agreement was signed without my knowledge and at no point was I asked whether £300 was sustainable. I understand from my wife that the enforcement agent dictated the trems of the agreement, including the repayment figure. I believe that the agreement is invalid as it does not appear to have been taken out in accordance with Regulation 14 of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013. My wife did not have my authority to enter into the agreement and she certainly did not have my authority to commit to such an unrealistic figure.

In support of my request to pay at a more affordable rate of £100 per month, I attach an I&E breakdown for your consideration. To show my commitment to this offer, I made payment of £100 to B&S on (insert date).

Finally, I ask that enforcement is placed on hold whilst my complaint and offer to repay is being considered.
Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#24 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 07 Aug 2017 10:58

I have emailed the CEO of council and also followed complaint procedure on the councils website and put it in writing there also.

Thank you to the genuine people on here

do i need to text the awful bailiffor bristow and sutor office and say a formal complaint has been made and to hold off action/enforcement??

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#25 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by JimUk1 » 07 Aug 2017 11:11

I would drop B&S a line telling them that you have contacted the council in an attempt to reach an agreement that is both affordable and sustainable. I would also send a text to the bailiff telling him the same.

The situation currently is this:

The bailiff cannot return to remove your goods until he sends you a mandatory notice of his intention to do so. B&S have very likely read both of your threads by now and may even have been tipped off by Bailiff Advice (although I get the impression that she is not as friendly with B&S as she is with other bailiff companies). If the bailiff really wanted to be awkward, he could return to your home under the belief that more goods have been bought inside. If, in the extremely unlikely event that this were to happen, I would refuse him entry. Once the complaint is being considered, the council should place further enforcement on hold.

The key to everything is the I&E and hopefully this will be set out so as to show that your husband can only afford to pay £100 per month.
Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#26 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 07 Aug 2017 11:38

The bailiff sent a removal warning ... do they need to give me another notice

I am unsure what to write to the bailiff as he is quite aggressive in his tone and will stop at nothing I feel

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#27 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 07 Aug 2017 11:39

What do I say to b&s ... just that I have put in a formal complaint? They will likely say it's out of our hands it's with the enforcement agent ( this is what they said all Friday )

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#28 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by JimUk1 » 07 Aug 2017 11:50

What does the removal warning look like? Was it posted or hand delivered?

It should have been headed "notice of intention to re-enter premises"

Just say to B&S that you have contacted the council directly regarding the amount demanded as monthly repayments as you cannot sustain £300 per month. Ask them to place enforcement on hold until the council have considered your request. State that you are hoping to be allowed to repay the debt at the lower rate of £100 per month and that you made a payment on the B&S online payment service on (insert date)

Text the bailiff and say "formal complaint has been submitted to council regarding rate of monthly repayments. Please do not return until matter is resolved"

He'll probably text back saying something like he can't stop until he's told to do so. Hopefully, the council will suspend action now in any case.
Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#29 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 07 Aug 2017 12:03

It says in red writing REMOVAL WARNING- IMPORTANT NOTICE.

Then once again an agent has attended your premises with intention of removing goods. These goods were taken control of on ( date in November) then says amount owed
Then said to call enforcement agent by 7pm that night to pay

I called him at 6:50 he got aggressive and he hung up on me

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#30 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 07 Aug 2017 12:05

Jim uk 1
You are being slated on other site again

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#31 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by JimUk1 » 07 Aug 2017 12:21

Morgan8080 wrote:
07 Aug 2017 12:05
Jim uk 1
You are being slated on other site again
Just ignore her - She is a bitter and twisted old woman in her mid 60s.

She's preaching about best not to be posting on 2 sites and then in the same breath criticising someone for NOT posting on 2 sites. She is both a hypocrite and an idiot of the highest degree.

I personally don't see what the significance is about where someone posts, as long as the advice given is helpful. These 3 sad individuals (with a combined age of around 200 years) seem more interested in starting flame wars than they do in actually helping you.

With regards the notice in red, that is not worth the paper that it is printed on. In order to re-attend your premises with the intention of removing goods, B&S MUST first send you a Notice of Intention to Re-Enter Premises and within this notice must be details of the CGA. Provided that you have not received a notice of intention to re-enter premises, the bailiff should not have been re-attending your home and he certainly should not have been leaving threatening letters.

Do you still have your original Notice of Enforcement from B&S?
Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#32 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 07 Aug 2017 12:32

I will have a look don't know if I do have it . I have controlled goods agreement copy

I will text bailiff now what we discussed .. if he decides to come can I refuse entry and say he must provide a notice to re enter premises

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#33 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Pote Snitkin » 07 Aug 2017 12:39

Morgan8080 wrote:
07 Aug 2017 12:32
if he decides to come can I refuse entry and say he must provide a notice to re enter premises
Yes - regs 25 & 26 of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013

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#34 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by JimUk1 » 07 Aug 2017 12:42

Provided that you are certain that you have not received a notice of intention to re-enter premises, you can refuse entry.

If you have received the notice of intention, you can still refuse entry but by doing so, he is entitled to call for a locksmith and force entry, in which case you will be exposed to the costs of the locksmith's attendance. Whether he would be able to just summon a locksmith there and then is another question.

How certain are you that you have not received a notice of intention to re-enter premises? This notice would be similar to the notice of enforcement, it would be dated, have a date stating the point at which the bailiff may enter (thereafter), it would have details of the CGA, it would have your husband's name and address and details of how and why he had failed to comply with the terms of the CGA. It would most likely be delivered by post.
Dodgeball: As the discerning viewer will realise , I was aware of the mistake in the reply when I posted it

:lol: Of course you were Dodgeball - It was purely coincidence that you only mentioned it after it had been pointed out to you on here.

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#35 Re: Bristow and sutor broken controlled goods agreement

Post by Morgan8080 » 07 Aug 2017 12:53

Not sure shall I ask b&s?

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