sherriffs office balliffs

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dudley01
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#1 sherriffs office balliffs

Post by dudley01 » 30 May 2017 10:01

Hi,
Can anyone help me! I have signed a controlled goods arrangement as the balliffs got into the house when our estate agent left the door open! My wife who is under treatment for cancer and my 15 year old son was present, and stress really affects my wife, so after some haggling they wrote down some furniture items and a laptop and had to be paid £1000 immediately which we did and £1500 in 7 days which we did. This was written on the CGA as well as the wording '' balance to be paid when house is sold''.
We have received a notice to re-enter premises and the reason stated is that we have not kept to the agreement, but in that box they have added some words so it now reads '' balance to be paid when the house is sold or within 30 days whichever is soonest'' this is not what was agreed.
I called the Sheriff's office whose only comment was their private individual client had changed his mind. I told them this was not what was agreed but they were not interested and said they will be calling.
I spoke to a solicitor who kindly advised to get an emergency hearing at our local magistrate's court so a judge can rule on it which i have done and it's tomorrow at 10.30am. The solicitor wants £1000 up front to act which we don't have, so i need advice as my wife is a nervous wreck, she has seen the doctor and got a letter confirming her cancer treatment but that won't stop them as they don't want to know.This is ruining our lives, please can anyone tell me that what they have done is unlawful, wrong in some way as reading thru some of the blogs it would appear that as they have altered the agreement it may make the original CGA invalid?
Thankyou

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Pote Snitkin
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#2 Re: sherriffs office balliffs

Post by Pote Snitkin » 30 May 2017 10:19

Did they leave a copy of the CGA with you?
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

dudley01
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#3 Re: sherriffs office balliffs

Post by dudley01 » 30 May 2017 10:39

Yes, that's where i got the original wording from. Having read a few blogs today, the wording they have used to itemise goods is also poor, it states HP Laptop for instance but no serial numbers.

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Pote Snitkin
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#4 Re: sherriffs office balliffs

Post by Pote Snitkin » 30 May 2017 10:56

Then it's your copy that counts - the bailiff cannot simply amend his copy.

Laptops are generally out of bounds as they contain too much personal information, banking details, children's details etc. 'HP laptop' wouldn't suffice anyway, as you point out. Most furniture is worthless to a bailiff - sofas without a fire safety label can't be resold, if you get my drift. The bailiff doesn't really want the hassle of removing anything. What else did he list?

Not sure why a solicitor wants £1k upfront - it implies they don't want to deal with it as they don't know enough about the legislation.

You'll have to be brave and go it alone I think. You can take someone along for support. The CGA is the prime evidence - you signed agreeing to the terms at the time. The bailiff cannot change them on a whim later on. This is the legislation that covers CGA's - as you can see the bailiff has made a hash of it.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013 ... on/15/made
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

dudley01
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Joined: 26 May 2017 18:01

#5 Re: sherriffs office balliffs

Post by dudley01 » 30 May 2017 11:12

Hi,
They listed - TV Samsung (no serial number or model), Table -wooden, x5 chairs - wooden, Tv samsung black (no serial number or model), x2 sofa cloth, surround system samsung (no serial number or model), 3 x wooden pine units, large wooden side unit, wooden dining table, x6 wooden chairs dark wood, x6 wooden dining chairs dark wood, x1 piano hoffman dark wood, canon printer white (no serial number or model), x1 desk unit wooden.
The officer's reckoned that was worth £2500 and that's what we were forced to pay.
I would like to know if this makes the CGA void as it's not detailed enough? and can i ask for the original writ of control to be annulled?
Thanks for the help.

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Pote Snitkin
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#6 Re: sherriffs office balliffs

Post by Pote Snitkin » 30 May 2017 11:27

Certainly most items are listed without the required detail. Writing "TV Samsung black" is insufficient and you could easily argue it was a different TV, or there's nothing to stop you buying up some cheap old similar items and claiming they are what was listed - not that I'm advocating that obviously.

A dining table and chairs would be exempt, and the sofas minus their safety tags cannot be sold at auction. The only one that is identifiable is the piano.

However, none of that matters - the CGA states that you are to pay the balance on the sale of the house, end of. that's the only piece of evidence you need.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

dudley01
Posts: 5
Joined: 26 May 2017 18:01

#7 Re: sherriffs office balliffs

Post by dudley01 » 30 May 2017 11:37

Thanks Pote Snitkin,
Your replies are greatly appreciated, my only concerns of going it alone, are that i am mindful of getting the correct wording out verbally and whether i need to do a statement for the court detailing the actions of the Balliffs and asking for the CGA to be annulled along with the writ of control. I don't want to over or under cook the statement or ask for something that a magistrate/judge will throw out.
Your views on this will also greatly help.
Thank you

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Pote Snitkin
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#8 Re: sherriffs office balliffs

Post by Pote Snitkin » 30 May 2017 12:17

Keep it short and to the point highlighting that the bailiff amended the CGA after you had signed it - provide the court with the original. Also add that most items, apart from the piano are either exempt or not recorded properly. Here are some things to include:

The Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013 state in reg 15:
(3) The agreement must contain the following information—

(e)a list of the goods of which control has been taken with a description to enable the debtor to identify the goods correctly, including, where applicable—

(i) the manufacturer, model and serial number of the goods;
Must is the inportant word, it means the bailiff has no choice in the matter.

The dining table is exempt. The regulation is reg 4 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013 ... ion/4/made
(1) Subject to paragraph (2) and to regulation 5, the following goods of the debtor are exempt goods—

(b) (iv) a dining table large enough, and sufficient dining chairs, to seat the debtor and every member of the debtor’s household;
Print out those regs to provide copies for the court. The court will only rely upon evidence you present.
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

dudley01
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Joined: 26 May 2017 18:01

#9 Re: sherriffs office balliffs

Post by dudley01 » 30 May 2017 13:42

Hi again,
Your help is brilliant. One last question - Can we ask for the monies paid (£2500) to the bailiffs and our costs to be repaid? plus can we ask for all interest and baliff charges applied to be dropped from the claim?
Thanks again.

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Pote Snitkin
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#10 Re: sherriffs office balliffs

Post by Pote Snitkin » 30 May 2017 14:01

You haven't given enough detail to assess whether you have such a case. What grounds do you feel the money can be repaid and the fees dropped? Do you owe the money? Did you contest it in court? Do you receive letters?
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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Pote Snitkin
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#11 Re: sherriffs office balliffs

Post by Pote Snitkin » 31 May 2017 22:52

The OP has asked to post this from a PM.

We filed a N244 last Thursday at the court asking for an emergency ex parte injunction but was told due to the high level of cases it could not be done and told to go away and call at 9.30 next day which we did only to be told it had been scheduled for today so we spent all weekend scared the ballifs would appear but they did not.
On the N244 box 3 what order are you asking the court to make and why we put - To set aside notice of intention to re-enter premises issued on 22/5/17 on the basis that it has been changed by the balliffs without our knowledge and it does not accord with the controlled goods agreement dated 23/2/17 and set aside writ to allow house sale to go thru.
In box 10 we ticked ''the attached witness statement'' this is a letter we attached to the N244 which contained our statement of what the sheriff's office had done along with how we had complied with the CGA and also the following-
1. copy of the email complaint we sent to the sherriffs office on 24/5/17 stating what they had changed and stating we had complied with the CGA and that they had altered the wording and that we and our solicitor deemed this unlawful and morally wrong and asked them to confirm they would withdraw it and reply to us by return due to the time restraints. We heard nothing. (The magistrate/judge today stated he wanted their written response to this and has also requested a typed copy if there is one of the original CGA, to which i showed him the original hand written and stated truthfully that we had never received a typed version).
2. Letter from the sherriffs office we had to call 4 times for containing a copy of the hand written CGA and a copy of the original writ that we had never seen before.
3. copy of the newly received INTENTION TO RE-ENTER PREMISES.
4. copy of the original CGA
5. Doctors letter from my wifes doctors stating her cancer treatment and she could not be prescribed any anti-depressants of any sort as it would interfere with the cancer drugs she has to take and that she was suffering with stress, anxiety and depression which was being made worse by the situation.
6. Contract dated 18/08/2005 between myself and wife where i signed over all ownership of all property inside and out and all equity in the property over and above £900,000 (which at the time covered the mortgages) in return for allowing me to remortgage the property to raise funds for my business (mortgage was 600k and i raised 300k which made it 900k total). It states it's a legally binding contract but was not signed by a solicitor as i did not know this would have been sensible to have done. In the covering letter, i state that i did show this to the officers who disregarded it stating it should have had an itinerary of the exact goods as was invalid and proceeded to argue with us until we signed the CGA. This is all what we submitted.
When we got home from the court on Thursday i looked at forums and got your advice, so i typed up all the things you stated in a letter to the court where the sherrifs breached the regulations and attached copies of each regulation but the judge stated i should issue a copy of all documents by the 7th June to all parties including the sherriffs office.

Thats the lot! What do you think? We thought a solicitor would put a better pack forward than we could as we don't want to get anything wrong to give the other side a reason to attack
Many thanks again
It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

On 22/2/17, Peterbard said "taking control of goods and selling them does not actually mean taking control of goods and selling them." Discuss.

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#12 Re: sherriffs office balliffs

Post by jasonDWB » 03 Jun 2017 19:27

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