DCBL visit!!

Apply to Stay the Writ. Set Aside the Judgment. Apply for more time to pay. Stop the Bailiff. Cancel the Fees.
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epicurus67
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#1 DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 20 Jun 2017 10:18

I had a visit last Wednesday from a High Court Enforcement Officer in relation to a matter concerning an ex business partner.

The story if that 10 years ago I started a business with 2 other (Ltd Co) and we took out a Business Loan with a high st bank for £50K over 5 years. All three of us were personal guarantors.

The company was closed in 2011, some 4 1/2 years into the loan. The company was dissolved on 25th June 2015. How this took so long I am not aware as I have had no contact from the liquidators.

The balance on the loan was apparently £9938.

It appears that all previous correspondence was sent to an address that I resided at 3 years ago. I have lived at 2 more addresses since that date and so received no correspondence in relation to this.

Apparently, one of the other directors paid the outstanding amount and then came after me and the third director for what we owed, which is fair enough.

The HCEO turned up and basically said he needed just over £10k from me and this despite saying that the third director had already made his contribution back to the director who settled the bank.

I told him I didn't have £10k and stated that I was unaware that the Natwest had not been settled by the liquidators and that I had received a CCJ on my credit file to an old address. Obviously, he got shirty and demanded entry into the house (the house is not mine and none of the possessions in the property are mine other than personal clothes etc). I refused entry at which point he said he could force entry and if I stopped him it is obstructing a High Court Officer in his role etc.

I could not give access as the property was not mine, so maintained my stance.

I asked to see paperwork but he said that he didn't have any and that it was all on his iPad device. I still have not seen anything.

He then said he would reduce the debt to £8k if I paid him that??? Reduced it by 2k just like that???

He eventually left as my partner showed him a copy of her mortgage statement proving the house was hers, car log book etc and he sort of accepted what we were saying to him.

He also said that an enforcement order had been sent out on 18th May to this address, but nothing was received?

I have since spoken to DCBL and requested they send me a copy of the Enforcement Order, but they have failed to do so?

I accept that I do owe a sum of money to the other Director and as I wasn't aware it was outstanding, will seek to sort the matter out from now. However the amount is obviously in dispute!

What would you advise I do now? Contact the other director and offer a payment plan or similar? What can I do about DCBL?

Thanks

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#2 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 20 Jun 2017 10:20

Just read that back. To clarify, I didn't know about the CCJ until the day after the DCBL guy turned up after checking my credit file. That is where I got the amount outstanding from with regard to the bank. CCJ was dated April 2016 at an old, old address.

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#3 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 20 Jun 2017 10:29

Stop dealing with DCBL. They will mess you about.

Apply to stay the writ and vary the original judgment. That takes out ALL the fees leaving the amount outstanding owed under the judgment.

You must act swiftly. Here is how it is done, or you can contact me for a consultation and I can prepare your court documents for a low cost fixed fee.

http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/St ... r-HCEO.htm
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#4 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 20 Jun 2017 10:44

Thanks for the reply.

I have downloaded form N244 - however I don't have any reference from the court. Claim number etc. Is it suffice to provide as much detail as a know without the specific reference number?

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#5 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 20 Jun 2017 11:34

You MUST include the county court claim number. It's on the writ or HM Court Service can give it to you. or Trust Online
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#6 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 20 Jun 2017 11:49

Sorry one last thing. Can I lodge the N244 form with the County Court or does it have to go to the High Court?

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#7 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 20 Jun 2017 11:53

High Court. Any registry or the HC inLondon.

London is quicker.
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#8 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 20 Jun 2017 11:58

Ah ok. I live in Newcastle upon Tyne - they have a High Court Newcastle District Registry so will that be ok?

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#9 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 20 Jun 2017 21:26

Yes, that should do it
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#10 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 22 Jun 2017 10:35

Thanks.

I attended the court and the Judge gave DCBL 48 hours to prove that they had delivered the enforcement order to me. Still waiting on that one.

In the meantime, I am arranging to pay the full amount to the claimant directly (not through DCBL) and I have drafted a letter to him with the following agreement for him to sign and return before payment is made. Is this recommended and/or adequate?


I (claimant) will accept the payment of £****.** from 2nd defendant (via a third party) and agree to the terms of this letter from the 2nd defendant dated 22nd June 2017 in that:-

1. I (the claimant) nor any other persons or my agents will take any other further action to collect or enforce this matter in any way.

2. the payment of £****.** payment satisfies the liability of this claim in full in respect of the 2nd Defendant.

3. I (the claimant) will notify the court in writing within 7 days of the cleared funds being received and furthermore that I will notify the court that the claim is settled in full and will thereafter stand withdrawn.

4. The parties agree to keep the terms of this settlement confidential save as required by law or by order of the court

I sign this agreement on the understanding that 2nd defendant will arrange immediate payment of the amount of £****.** via a third party cheque sent to my home address via 1st Class Registered Post.

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#11 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 22 Jun 2017 11:50

epicurus67 wrote:
22 Jun 2017 10:35
Thanks.

I attended the court and the Judge gave DCBL 48 hours to prove that they had delivered the enforcement order to me. Still waiting on that one.

Don't bank on that happening. They will reconstitute a copy of the notice. If it was given by post then for such an important document carrying a £75 charge, then a freely available certificate of posting should be given.


In the meantime, I am arranging to pay the full amount to the claimant directly (not through DCBL) and I have drafted a letter to him with the following agreement for him to sign and return before payment is made. Is this recommended and/or adequate?

You don't need to the claimant to sign anything, its a CCJ and a writ. Once it has been paid, the enforcement power ends.


Better still, apply to stay the writ and that transfers the claim back to county court jurisdiction.


I (claimant) will accept the payment of £****.** from 2nd defendant (via a third party) and agree to the terms of this letter from the 2nd defendant dated 22nd June 2017 in that:-

1. I (the claimant) nor any other persons or my agents will take any other further action to collect or enforce this matter in any way.

2. the payment of £****.** payment satisfies the liability of this claim in full in respect of the 2nd Defendant.

3. I (the claimant) will notify the court in writing within 7 days of the cleared funds being received and furthermore that I will notify the court that the claim is settled in full and will thereafter stand withdrawn.

4. The parties agree to keep the terms of this settlement confidential save as required by law or by order of the court

I sign this agreement on the understanding that 2nd defendant will arrange immediate payment of the amount of £****.** via a third party cheque sent to my home address via 1st Class Registered Post.
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#12 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 22 Jun 2017 12:05

Thanks again.

So do I simply send the cheque to the claimant? or pay DCBL?

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#13 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 22 Jun 2017 12:08

Sorry forgot to mention.

I did apply to stay the writ - thats when the Judge stated they must provide their document within 48 hours. This ends at 4pm today.

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#14 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Pote Snitkin » 22 Jun 2017 12:25

DO NOT pay anything through DCBL. Wait for the 4pm deadline - if they fail to produce then they are in breach of the court order. You can then pay the creditor direct.
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epicurus67
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#15 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 22 Jun 2017 12:55

Ok thanks.

I have drafted out a letter to the Creditor to send with the cheque post 4pm today. I will photocopy it, the cheque and have proof of postage from the post office. How do I know he will inform the court that it has been settled etc and in turn the Credit ref agencies?

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#16 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 22 Jun 2017 21:43

You don't. You may have to clean up and then ask the creditor to pay the cleanup cost.
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#17 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 27 Jun 2017 13:02

Sent the cheque to the creditor with a receipt to send back, and it was all returned in the stamped addressed envelope? No explanation given!

Can you suggest a next step?

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#18 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 27 Jun 2017 14:32

Give notice to the bailiff the amount outstanding has been paid and the enforcement power ceases under paragraph 6(3) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act.

Do it by text message to his phone and record the text message with the time it was sent.
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#19 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 27 Jun 2017 14:40

I did that by first class post to the DCBL Company. Will that suffice?

Do I resend the cheque?

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#20 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 27 Jun 2017 14:58

If you give the money to DCBL, the creditor will never see it. It goes in the bailiffs pocket as inflated fees. Please don't go there.

If you send it to the creditor, you don't need to ask for a receipt. Take a photo of the cheque and envelope and send it recorded delivery and keep the signature on file. If the creditor does not bank the cheque, the enforcement power still ends. You made payment against cleared finds.
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#21 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 27 Jun 2017 15:10

Ok thank you.

It was sent to the creditor with the request a receipt was sent back. As mentioned the entire thing came back in the stamped addressed envelope including the cheque. I won't be sending it to the Bailiffs.

I will resend taking a photo of the cheque and envelope and send it recorded delivery not requesting the receipt.

Should I accompany it with a letter or simply the cheque only? Many thanks in advance.

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#22 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 27 Jun 2017 21:36

No letter needed, just write on the back what the cheque is for and the judgment claim number. If the creditor signs for it and does not bank the cheque, and the debtor takes an enforcement step, we have a repeat of Wilkinson v Murgatroyd 2015.
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#23 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 28 Jun 2017 13:14

Just an update......

Thanks for all comments and advice so far.

Re the application to stay the writ and vary the order. DCBL were given 48 hours to provide information to the court. They have failed to do so. As of today the court have still not received anything. (My application to the Court was 20th June).

Following the receiving of the cheque back from the Claimant. The cheque has been sent to the claimant again via 1st class sign for post. The court also advised me to do this.

If the cheque comes back again, the court have advised me to send in the proof of postage for both times it was sent with copies of any correspondence and it will be passed to the Judge to deal with.

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#24 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 06 Jul 2017 13:32

Cheque sent to claimant, however I have just noticed when formulating correspondence to the court re the non cashing of the cheque, it was sent £81 short. Transposed figure :(

I intend to send a further cheque for that amount to make up to the full amount today but the original cheque has still not been cased in nearly two weeks? Maybe as it wasn't the full amount? No response to letter or emails from the claimant though.

Once again spoke to the court who confirmed again that the writ had been stayed and that they had not heard anything else from either the Claimant or DCBL and advised me to write to the court with proof of postage / track and trace details with the post office etc, which I am doing today.

Nothing received from the court either.

I'm at a loss and just want the matter to be concluded.

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#25 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 06 Jul 2017 16:54

You must give notice to the bailiff the amount outstanding has been paid. That ends the enforcement power under paragraph 6(3) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. If the enforcement agent hasn't been given notice, then he is not liable for damages if he takes an enforcement step. Paragraph 59(2) of Schedule 12.

Template.
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#26 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 07 Jul 2017 07:10

Thanks.

Although not worded as well as your template, I did send a letter to DCBL and to the Court copying in a photocopy of the cheque and letter that was sent to the Claimant two weeks ago.

Nothing heard from either the claimant or DCBL, which I find odd. That together with the cheque not being banked.

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#27 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 07 Jul 2017 12:57

It doesn't matter if the cheque is not banked, You benefit from that because the enforcement power has ended on giving the cheque against cleared funds.

If enforcement action is taken, you can sue the creditor by bringing an action under paragraph 66 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 because it is breach of Paragraph 6(3) of Schedule 12.

Some bailiffs take the gamble, most don't.
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#28 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 12 Jul 2017 20:31

jasonDWB wrote:
07 Jul 2017 12:57
It doesn't matter if the cheque is not banked, You benefit from that because the enforcement power has ended on giving the cheque against cleared funds.

If enforcement action is taken, you can sue the creditor by bringing an action under paragraph 66 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 because it is breach of Paragraph 6(3) of Schedule 12.

Some bailiffs take the gamble, most don't.
This one did!

Another visit from DCBL High Court today.

Informed him that:-

1. The writ had been stayed (he wasn't aware and said they hadn't received the court order) but then he said that the claimant may have received it and not told them? I informed him that a copy of the court order re staying the writ had been sent to DCBL and they hadn't complied. I then contacted the County Court and put him on to the enforcement team who told him the same thing.

2. Also told him that the cheques had been sent to the claimant and not been cashed. DCBL guy said they had advised the claimant not to accept the cheques? I told them that this was the full amount payable to which he replied, 'me being here doesn't come for free' referring to whatever the fees that DCBL are adding on?

3. Also informed him that the Claimant had neither indicated to me that he had rejected the cheques nor had he informed the court.

Anyway, the guy left and to report back to the claimant and his company I presume.

I was advised by the court that the claimant would now have to apply to have the writ unstayed? Can he reject the cheques for the full amount payable or can he insist on receiving the amount plus DCBL fees (whatever they are as I haven't been told what they are or even if they exist).

Isn't the matter back in the jurisdiction of the county court again with the staying of the writ?

Still no further forward :(

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#29 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 12 Jul 2017 21:00

Once the writ has stayed, it's no longer in High Court Jurisdiction.

The county court now has jurisdiction. You have to apply to have the judgment set aside or varied in a county court.

It doesn't matter if the claimant has "rejected" payments. It only means the enforcement power has ended. If the cheque expires then the creditor is out of luck.

DCBL is probably smarting having lost out on its fees and its transfer up fee it would have paid to the HC.
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#30 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 13 Jul 2017 10:35

Thanks for that.

That's what I said to DCBL about the jurisdiction back in the county court.

Can DCBL advise the claimant to refuse the payment, when it was they who informed me of the amount to be paid, which agreed with the court and the figure already paid by the other Director to the claimant?

Can he then apply to the court to get the writ unstayed in order to apply for their fees?

Seems to make a mockery of the system, when DCBL can just add fees on as they please.

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#31 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 14 Jul 2017 16:33

epicurus67 wrote:
13 Jul 2017 10:35


Can DCBL advise the claimant to refuse the payment,
Legally no, but reality, yes they will try.


when it was they who informed me of the amount to be paid, which agreed with the court and the figure already paid by the other Director to the claimant?
DCBL will want fees, and they will cut corners trying to get them b y making out the enforcement power continues after it has ended.


Can he then apply to the court to get the writ unstayed in order to apply for their fees?
No.

At least, I have never seen any bailiff company do that.

Seems to make a mockery of the system, when DCBL can just add fees on as they please.
They can only add fees the law allows.
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#32 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by sessone » 14 Jul 2017 21:08

I too had a visitvfrim these scam artists that visitors my mom's home first which I couldn't understand after all other correspondence came to my address.
Then they came to mine said they had mailed 1 writ to my mom's address and then the other to mine which was a lie they both where photo copies too
I ended up giving them 500 and made an agreement to pay 100 a week which I can no longer afford my partner entered into the agreement as well as goods listings.
Is there anything I can do or do I book a consultation with yourself.
They also came with tv crew which I denied access bailiff threatened to come with force even tho I have little ones,I've kept up with payment so far but do not want to give them anymore.

Any advise please

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#33 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by Schedule 12 » 14 Jul 2017 22:13

You need to apply to stay the writ - even if it's just to kill off the DCBL fees. THey shouldn't have cheated and ambushed you with a film crew. Your grounds the address is wrong (your mums).

You can issue a section 10 notice to the film company.

I'll explain all of these in our telephone consultation and do your section 10 notice there and then. I'm around tomorrow morning or tomorrow night.
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#34 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by epicurus67 » 15 Jul 2017 09:50

Update....

13th July Claimant applied to have the writ un-stayed, which was granted on the basis of my 'non compliance'.

I had actually hand delivered to the court on 6th July a full set of documents including proof of postage, photocopy of cheque, proof of signing etc. This was in a backlog at the court and had not even been processed or logged when the Judge looked at the application to un-stay the writ. The court had indicated earlier in the week that they were short staffed and no one was looking at the work/correspondence including mine.

I contacted the court and said that this cannot be right and that it needed to be looked into as a matter or urgency as DCBL were back on the back the writ being un-stayed. The Judge had made a decision to un-stay the writ when not being in full knowledge of the facts

The court found my documentation in their backlog and quite rightly put it back in front of the Judge and the writ was stayed once again, with the claimant having the liberty to lift the stay.

So here we are back to square one.

The court have indicated that if the application goes in to lift the stay a further time then the Judge may decide on a hearing?

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#35 Re: DCBL visit!!

Post by sessone » 17 Jul 2017 22:29

Hi
I'm going to apply for the stay of writ,how would you advise I go about dealing with the tv crew? Or have you done that as you stated previous in the message.

I did try to contact you today as I need to start the ball rolling now, these legal burglars make me sick,they didn't give 2 hoots that I have little ones to feed.

All advice would be truly grateful.

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