Unidentified Man-in-Black Banging on Door

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Viking
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#1 Unidentified Man-in-Black Banging on Door

Post by Viking » 07 Jun 2017 15:20

Hello Folks!

New to this Forum, but I'm not exactly new to what dirty tricks the Debt Industry gets up to.

I won't say too much at this stage, because I'm not yet 100% sure of the Company that elected to disturb my family and I a day or so ago.

But the story, so far, was I heard a nasty banging at our door early afternoon, one that many here will know is the tell tale sign of a DCA having fun trying to encourage alarm and distress before one even gets to speak to them.

I had a feeling I knew who this might be, having noted a nasty looking letter arriving a couple of weeks ago, addressed to what I assumed was a former tenant of the place where my family and I now live. The Franked Logo and Trading Name on the back were obviously DCA, and so I made sure that one was Returned to Sender so that we would not be bothered by this group.

From what I could tell peering at the letter, it looked like a fishing exercise. The chap they were chasing had not lived here for well over 1.5 years, because that's how long we have been at this address.

OK, you may see that this debt, and I am only assuming it is a debt, because I don't actually know what it is about, has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with either me or my family.

OK, back to the visit...

I could see through the frosted glass that the creature who had been thumping the hell out of our front door, was a large fellow, dressed all in black like a Police Officer or High Court Enforcement Officer, and was clutching a Clipboard full of papers.

Here we go I thought.

Opened the door and, sure enough, I was face to face with some officious Moron, who was not here to read the Gas Meter! He had a logo of some sort on his Police-style jacket, and a BodyCam (yes, I'm aware of the DPA 1998 and s7 DSAR scope there). About all he didn't have was a Peaked Cap!

I politely asked him what, prey, he wanted, and was told that he wanted to have speaks with some bloke who had ZERO to do with either me or my family. The name, however, rang a bell, because I have had to send back many ex-tenants' post to sender, and the name he was asking for was not only one of them, but was also the same chap that was on the above nasty looking letter that I had specifically sent back a couple of weeks ago.

IOW, I had already effectively put his Company on Notice that the chap was not living here, so why I found myself face to face with a condescending Moron asking me to speak to the same chap, was something of a mystery.

I politely informed the Man-in-Black that the chap was long gone, we moved into a vacant rental well over a year ago, and had been sending back any mail we received for that chap, and other tenants when this place was split into Apartments.

Thank you for calling, off you go Pal.

Obviously, the truth wasn't good enough for the Man-in-Black, so he demanded that I produce some ID together with a copy of our Tenancy Agreement.

Two hopes there mate, Bob Hope and No Hope!

So I declined his aggressive invitation to disclose my personal Data to a complete stranger, however scarily he was attired.

I asked him to leave at that stage, because he had just over-stayed his welcome.

Then the threats started.

If I didn't do as I was told and bend over, then he would not be able to remove our address from their "System" and they would just keep coming around until I did behave.

Oh dear, that was a mistake.

I then went on the offensive, and demanded to know who, exactly, he was, and what authority, exactly, he thought he had to start telling me what to do on our own doorstep, and what Statutory authority he thought he had that required me to start divulging my personal Data to him, i.e. a complete stranger.

Out came an official looking ID, with a nice badge that looked a bit like a kid's US Marshal badge, with a scary looking collection of words that said, in no particular order, Pro, Serve, Debt Collection, Bailiff and Services...with his fat thumb covering up the bit I was looking for!

I snatched it from him, and sure enough, there under his thumb was the abbreviation "Ltd".

Ah, ha, I said, you are just an employee of a Private Limited Company, and have no Statutory powers whatsoever.

What other papers do you have? A Court Order? A Writ?

Man-in-Black claimed to be here on behalf of the Court, but when I asked him which Court? High Court? He wobbled and seemed to say "NOT High Court"!

OK, with me so far?

I then asked to see any Court papers that he had, such as a Writ, and he said he didn't have that with him, but did have one.

Fine I said, go and get that and come back. But please leave, you have been told all you need to know.

Man-in-Black continued to block the sunshine coming in through our front door, so I told him that if he didn't leave after having been asked more than once to do so, then I would eject him from the land using reasonable force.

Man-in-Black didn't like how his day was going, so just stood there like a phart in a trance. So, I just gently pushed his fine ample chest, and guided him backwards to the pavement. He didn't resist, just walked backwards.

I was somewhat shorter than Man-in-Black, but I'm dangerous over short distances! Man-in-Black didn't intimidate me one bit, but he would have intimidated my wife, or anyone vulnerable. That's mostly what annoyed me the most. Man-in-Black was clearly one of life's bullies, and far too used to getting his own way.

Once on public land, I said he could rant and rave there as much as he liked, but he was not to take one step back onto private land having been specifically asked to leave, and after having to be removed using reasonable force (or words to that effect, some were in French).

At that point, he informed me that I had just assaulted him!

WTF?

I said, no matey boy, I have not. But if he wanted to find out what assault was, then he'd find out if he elected to trespass after having just been removed. This was to amplify that I was not about to play push-me/pull-me games with a dunce. This rubbish stops and he was not to revisit us.

Man-in-Black then said he would call the Police to report the "Assault", which I not unreasonably assumed was yet another tactic to imply he had some greater authority.

I said fine, do so, and I would happily explain his conduct to them.

Naturally, I thought that was that but, after a little while, to my complete exasperation, two Police Officers walked past our home, and went off to chat with Man-in-Black who was sat sulking in his van on double yellow lines. His little badge presumably also gives him the authority to ignore parking restrictions too.

This was a monumental waste of Police time, and was totally uncalled for.

By then I had tried to check out who he was, and found that a Company that appeared to be his, had a Lapsed DCA Licence with the FCA, so as far as I could tell, he had no authority to Debt Collect/canvass off Company premises, let alone enforce Court Orders/Judgements.

The Police were fine, I was happy to chat to them, showed them my ID and our Tenancy Agreement, and confirmed that who ever Man-in-Black was hunting, was absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with either me or my family, as I had explained to him. I also handed the Police the FCA Credit Licence Search, suggesting Man-in-Black was acting at least unlawfully, and quite possibly criminally if he was not what he purported to be.

I made it clear that he had refused to show me any Writ, and nothing to suggest he was in any way acting on behalf of any Court. The female Police Officer said he had some Court papers with him, but didn't elaborate on what they were.

A Company with a similar name has been reported on the web as having been caught completing Court Forms to give the impression that the Company is acting on behalf of a Court, so I have no idea if the papers were Sealed by a Court, or were just mocked up rubbish.

I've since found this Forum, and have since checked the High Court Enforcement Officer Register and also the Certified Enforcement Agent Registers, and his Company's Trading name and/or Full Company Name doesn't come up, nor does any of the other possible Companies with similar names (that seem to share the same Registered Office).

I can say the Company is not any of the ones listed on the HCEO Register, and none of the ones I have seen on the Forums here (that I can see).

As fas as I can tell, it was just a dressed up DCA trying to trace someone, but trying to pretend he was something else entirely to elicit a flow of useful information from alarmed Consumers who know not how to see through his little act.

At the moment I have written to the Police to ask for all key details, Incident Report, his name, his Company Name, what exactly I was accused of etc, so when I receive those details, then I can come back here and update.

I don't want to accuse the wrong Company of wrong-doing, so will hold off naming names until I know who Man-in-Black was representing.

Given his threats to keep coming back, and given the presumed debt is nothing to do with us, I think Man-in-Black is exploring the boundaries of s2(1) of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, if not a shed load of other abuses. I will consider an Injunction to keep him and his Company away, and I can see that through if needed.

Finally, I do have a Police Incident Number, which looks like a Crime Number, i.e. numerals, then the date of the Incident.

Basically, Man-in-Black thumped on the wrong door, but would not back down mainly because he didn't like the fact that someone would have the cheek to stand up to him and his nonsense.

Viking

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jasonDWB
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#2 Re: Unidentified Man-in-Black Banging on Door

Post by jasonDWB » 07 Jun 2017 15:33

Proserve is a cowboy outfit operating from North Wales, They have one contract. Denbighshire.

I doubt the company is compliant with this: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000 ... tents/made

Last I heard of them, they operate out of a caravan in a disused car park.
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Viking
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#3 Re: Unidentified Man-in-Black Banging on Door

Post by Viking » 07 Jun 2017 15:51

Hello JasonDWB!

I regret I didn't make a careful note of the Company name, so am not yet sure which Company was on his little badge.

It was unexpected, so from hindsight I would have taken images and/or taken a pen and paper out with me!

It was definitely a Limited Comany, so is not the flavour of that Trading Name that is a Sole Trader. I have read there are two groups using the same main Trading name, one of which is a Company, the other isn't.

I suspect it's the same characters behind the scenes, but just in case one is above board and the other not, I just want to be sure of my target.

I've had a look at Companies House, and I think I have spotted which one, but can't yet be sure until I hear from the Police.

That nasty letter that I mentioned was a bit elusive in terms of stating who had sent it, probably so as not to be accused of being too obvious and landing in, say, hot water in terms of embarrassing recipients?

i.e. they can't really plaster an envelope with DEBT or words to that effect, so all they added was the main Trading name that you have suggested.

I read that as Process Server when I first saw it, which was probably why that main part of the Trading/Company Name was chosen.

Sorry to be elusive, I just want to be sure which Company I was dealing with before I go on the offensive at them via letter and Police complaints etc.

I'm 99.9% sure it was just a DCA who thinks dressing up will get them better results, but it's one who is overstepping the mark and could well be facing the music on a number of serious issues. I doubt the Police will do anything, but you never know. I doubt they enjoyed having their time wasted, so may be interested in making an example of this group to deter others?

Viking

Viking
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#4 Re: Unidentified Man-in-Black Banging on Door

Post by Viking » 07 Jun 2017 16:42

Hello Folks!

Just heard from the Police that I am in the clear:
Good Afternoon Mr Viking

I have read the log xxx xx/06/2017 and read your email. I am sorry you had such an upsetting caller and hope that you are going to be speaking to the management of Proserve Debt Recovery to put your concerns across and how this all had an impact on yourself and your family.

As far as the police are concerned the officers were happy that the bailiff was removed from your property by lawful ejection by yourself and there will be no further action.

Kind Regards
Force Contact Centre
I've asked for clarification of the Company name, because there are a few that seem to use a very similar name, and also that Sole Trader kicking around that shares yet another version of the name.

I need to identify the target to aim for.

Viking

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#5 Re: Unidentified Man-in-Black Banging on Door

Post by jasonDWB » 07 Jun 2017 17:38

Proserve Debt Recovery is in North Wales. For such a small company, they get a lot of notoriety.

Its this guy https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/offi ... pointments

It's nothing to do with process serving. A process server just hands documents in an envelope at a specified address then files an affidavit into court saying he has given service. It stops a respondent making a retrospective defense or set aside application claiming they didn't know about the proceedings.
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Viking
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#6 Re: Unidentified Man-in-Black Banging on Door

Post by Viking » 07 Jun 2017 20:02

Hello JasonDWB!

Agreed, I think the Trading name was just selected to imply Process Serving was one of their services.

It could mean something else, but that's the one that I took it to mean when I first saw the name.

Viking

Viking
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#7 Re: Unidentified Man-in-Black Banging on Door

Post by Viking » 08 Jun 2017 10:11

Hello Folks!

The Police responded again last night, so I'm getting closer to identifying the Company that employs Man-in-Black, here's what came in last night:
Good Evening Mr. Viking,

Unfortunately the Police will not be able to fully identify the trading name of this company either, I have looked them up online and it appears that 'Proserve Debt Recovery and Bailiff Services Ltd' is likely to be the full company name but I cannot be sure of this.

Their website is www.proservewales.co.uk

If you wish to contact them about the incident their telephone number for customer support is 01492 534436, or there is a contact form you can fill out via there website.

I do hope you no longer have any problems with this company.

Many Thanks,
Force Contact Centre
I didn't find that web site when hunting for the Company, possibly because it combines the word PROSERVE with WALES, and that may well be deliberate to keep a low profile other than for their Clients who will see, no doubt, nice big adverts in places like Debt Today, sorry, Credit Today!

OK, this looks like the bunch in North Wales that JasonDWB was thinking of.

Looks like Process Serving is one of their specialities, so I was sort of on the right track there.

Please note that I am not yet 100% sure this is the Company, but it's looking increasingly likely.

I've looked at their own Complaints Handling rubbish, and it's just the usual DCA bias, i.e. more or less along these lines:
If as a Filthy Debtor you must Complain, then you are probably wrong and Proserve is right. The most likely reasons for Complaining will be in spite because Proserve has contacted you because of your Debts. However, if you do complain and, if you are very, very lucky, a Proserve Manager may look at your Complaint and will give you a final decision on your meritless Complaint.
I have no desire to have my time wasted there, I just want confirmation that it was their employee who threatened me and my family with on-going harassment over someone else's problems.

Once I know it was this Company, then I can lodge formal complaints with Police, Justice Department etc etc.

Viking

Dm3
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#8 Re: Unidentified Man-in-Black Banging on Door

Post by Dm3 » 09 Jun 2017 01:09

The Bill of Exchange Act 1882, states that "Once a debt has been paid, that debt is extinguished. So when a firm of Debt Collectors/Bailiffs buy a debt, it's PAID OFF Extinguished according to the BoE Act 1882. They pay it off for you. Which is why it is crucial for them to contact you first to establish an obligation to pay them back i.e create a new debt agreement specially with you. And you can tell them so. Debt Collectors/Bailiffs have no Lawful standing. They are 3rd party interlopers. Tell them "I don't require the services of your company, Now go away

Viking
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#9 Re: Unidentified Man-in-Black Banging on Door

Post by Viking » 09 Jun 2017 01:35

Hello Dm3!

You may not have noted that in this case, there is no debt, at least not relating to either me or any member of my family...the idiot was chasing someone else, and decided to give me a hard time thinking he could intimidate to get the answers he wanted.

That was his first mistake.

His second mistake was thinking he could treat people like dirt just because he was dressed up in black and had a silly Company ID.

His third mistake was when he threatened me and my family with on-going harassment unless I did what he wanted.

His fourth mistake was refusing to leave the property.

His fifth mistake was then calling the Police after I was forced to remove him from the property using lawful ejection.

All being well, if his employer has any Certification, that might now be in jeopardy given the way he was abusing what authority he might have had, were I the person he was hunting, and had he presented me with appropriate paperwork (impossible anyway, when it was not me he was seeking).

The idiot was facing a no win situation, but kept digging once he had created a hole for himself. He made the classic mistake of trying to reinforce complete failure.

Viking

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leebob1974
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#10 Re: Unidentified Man-in-Black Banging on Door

Post by leebob1974 » 14 Jun 2017 15:09

Im having similar issues. Good to see the police actually responding! nicely done Mr.Viking!

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