Marston - 'warrant of control'

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Schedule 12
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#36 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Schedule 12 » 17 Jul 2017 12:24

Lh2017 wrote:
17 Jul 2017 07:42
So the question is. What do I do now?

I've been summoned to court on 2nd August and since the court threatened not to stop bailiff action unless I completed the forms, I have made a plea with the single justice procedure paperwork AND included a letter of mitigation.

Do I need a solicitor to fight whats happened so far? Or do I just turn up to court and ask when the information was first laid, hoping that it falls out of the 6-month window they had to lay the complaint in court...
No. Print a hard copy of Section 127 of the Magistrates Court's Act 1980 and this will depend on whether the offence you are accused is an indictable one.

If it's not, then the magistrate can sling it out because it's well out of time, or if the magistrate doesn't follow the law, you can appeal within 21 days. Then you will need a solicitor, but you can ask for your costs.
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#37 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 17 Jul 2017 16:29

Ok. So to confirm.

The original offence date was April 2016.
I returned the NIP in May.
I notified them if a change of address in August 2016 but never heard anything back.
I recieved a letter in May telling me I had not paid a fine - upon checking this was related to this matter and I was told it had been to court in January 2017. I do not know when the information was first laid in court.
I completed as Statutory Declaration in June which was sent recorded next day delivery.
A week later the court responded stating they would not process the Statutory Declaration until I had completed Single Justice Process paperwork indicating a plea. They told me Bailiffs would continue to chase me for the fine unless the paperwork was submitted.
They have no re-summoned me for the 2nd August.

So. Now I should send them a copy of the Magistrates Act 1980 highlighting the sections which I believe they have breached (both in how the Statutory Declaration was not processed correctly and that it has been over 6 months since the time the information was laid in court, as this in a non indictable offence, and it also may be out of time depending on when the information was initially laid in court).

Do I threaten to make a complaint at this stage?

Lh2017
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#38 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 17 Jul 2017 16:57

This is the email I have just sent to the court. Hopefully they will provide me with information about when this was first laid in court. It would have to be between August 16 and January 17. If August (then the 6 months from it first being laid would be February 2017) if any of the other months up until December then its either out of the 6 month time limit for laying the initial complaint, or over 6 months from the date of it being laid in court to the re-summons. SO. Does that mean either way it's looking like this is dead in the water as far as a conviction goes?

Should I contact the court pending their response to the email below, and request more time to plea following new advice? I.e can I retract my guilty plea (made within the SJP paperwork) and ask for more time subject to my concerns...

Dear sir/madam,

Further to receiving a summons to attend court on 2nd August could it be confirmed when the information relating to the original complaint (speeding offence) was first laid in court and date of when the original summons was sent please. If possible could you attach a copy of the original summons.

Could it also be confirmed why the court were initially unable to process my Statutory Declaration which was sent recorded next day delivery to the court?

In accordance with the Magistrates Act 1980, Section 14, subsection (1)(a) "the accused, at any time during or after the trial, makes a statutory declaration that he did not know of the summons or the proceedings until a date specified in the declaration, being a date after the court has begun to try the information" and subsection

(2)" For the purposes of subsection (1) above a statutory declaration shall be deemed to be duly served on the [F2designated officer] if it is delivered to him, or left at his office, or is sent in a registered letter or by the recorded delivery service addressed to him at his office."

As far as I am aware I followed the correct procedure for sending the Statutory Declaration as per Section 14 guidance, but was told that it would not be processed without a plea. This does not appear to be accurate. I was also told that enforcement proceedings would not be stopped until a plea was entered. This also appears to be incorrect.

Please could someone clarify.

Kind regards,

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#39 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Schedule 12 » 17 Jul 2017 17:25

Lh2017 wrote:
17 Jul 2017 16:29

Do I threaten to make a complaint at this stage?
Never 'threaten' anything. Just make the complaint when it becomes due and say what you want them to do to put it right. Set a deadline.
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#40 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 19 Jul 2017 13:53

So I still have not had a response from the magistrates court following my email in the last post. I have emailed them today asking for someone to respond within 1 working day (3 working days since the email) so that I can pass the information on to a legal representative. If not can I request more time before going to court? (If its going to get that far).

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#41 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Schedule 12 » 19 Jul 2017 14:21

The court service will ignore your email.

When you attend, you can have a solicitor represent you and their costs are paid out of central funds.
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#42 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 19 Jul 2017 16:51

They have responded now to say that my request has been sent on to a legal advisor "who us aware of my case". I dont understand why they are bothering to proceed with this when it looks like its out of time anyway. Why waste court time if this isnt going to go anywhere?

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#43 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Schedule 12 » 19 Jul 2017 18:37

It's court service terminology to make excuses.

It goes pear shape when the Parliamentary Ombudsman asks who the 'legal advisor' was because if the legal adviser is found to have improperly advised exposing someone to an unlawful loss, they are personally liable and their indemnity cover pays damages and the cost of the investigation.

I first discovered this during the making of a TV documentary when an actor was given the same excuse by a member of court staff when she was rebutted from laying a criminal complaint before a justice of the peace. (under section 1 of the Magistrate's Courts Act 1980). It was here the buzzword "legal advisor" who is never named or seen, was uncovered.
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#44 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 19 Jul 2017 20:25

Does this mean they are unlikely to give me an answer to this question. Surely its a simple enough one to answer... when was the complaint first laid in court?

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#45 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 21 Jul 2017 13:03

The court have responded and told me that the information was first laid before the court on the 14.10.17. That is within the 6 month period (just) but more than 6 months has passed since that date. Does that now mean because this is not an indictable offence that they cannot convict in accordance with the law mentioned in a previous post (where it was cited that if there had been a further 6 months which had passed since the original date the complaint was laid, the conviction could no longer be processed).

They said that the legal advisor has agreed to adjourn the case (but not yet given a date) and that the court file is being returned from them to the court and attached will be notes advising them on how to proceed. They said they hope to be in contact within the next few days.

I'm nervous! Is this good news. Or are they going to look to really nail me because I have questioned their processes...

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#46 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Schedule 12 » 21 Jul 2017 14:32

Lh2017 wrote:
21 Jul 2017 13:03
The court have responded and told me that the information was first laid before the court on the 14.10.17. That is within the 6 month period (just)
Unfortunately, the information stands. When you make a section 14 SD, it only revoked the proceedings. It doesnt revoke the original information laid before the court.

Section 14(1) says

...

  • without prejudice to the validity of the information, the summons and all subsequent proceedings shall be void.
[/i]



but more than 6 months has passed since that date. Does that now mean because this is not an indictable offence that they cannot convict in accordance with the law mentioned in a previous post (where it was cited that if there had been a further 6 months which had passed since the original date the complaint was laid, the conviction could no longer be processed).

They said that the legal advisor has agreed to adjourn the case (but not yet given a date) and that the court file is being returned from them to the court and attached will be notes advising them on how to proceed. They said they hope to be in contact within the next few days.

I'm nervous! Is this good news. Or are they going to look to really nail me because I have questioned their processes...
I have a feeling it's not the news you have been looking for.

The only consolation is the bailiff matter and their fees are finished.
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#47 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 23 Oct 2017 14:45

So to update. I went to court in September. Matter was dealt with and I recieved 6 points and a fine. Done and dusted.. or so I thought.

Two weeks ago I found out the court had endorsed my licence twice. So had to send an email and get that sorted. THEN today an enforcement officer turned up at my house with a final notice with warrant to force entry and sieze goods for the original fine of £879.00. I had to phone the court to find out what an earth was going on... basicially they didn't bother to process things their end clearly when the stat dec was produced at court and the sentence was revoked and I was resentenced.

Is there anything I can do in terms of complaints? Almost 2 years on and this bloody speeding ticket is still causing me unnecessary stress!! As you can imagine, I was pretty shocked when bailiffs attended my property and started taking down vehicle details on my driveway etc!!!! And my two little ones were with me as it is half term. All because someone somewhere just didnt bother to process whatever they needed to back in September!! Good job it wasn't an arrest warrant...

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#48 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Schedule 12 » 23 Oct 2017 15:45

Lh2017 wrote:
23 Oct 2017 14:45
basicially they didn't bother to process things their end clearly when the stat dec was produced at court and the sentence was revoked and I was resentenced.
If you were resentenced and you learned of it from a bailiff after the setnencing date, then you do another section 14 statutory delcaration. Everything is invalid.

Is there anything I can do in terms of complaints?
No. Just kill the thing with a section 14.


Almost 2 years on and this bloody speeding ticket is still causing me unnecessary stress!! As you can imagine, I was pretty shocked when bailiffs attended my property and started taking down vehicle details on my driveway etc!!!! And my two little ones were with me as it is half term. All because someone somewhere just didnt bother to process whatever they needed to back in September!! Good job it wasn't an arrest warrant...
You can make a concurrent complaint to make an investigation why section 14 of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980 was not followed, and explain why the court service continued with enforcement knowing you were not aware of the proceedings.

You can also ask them to investigate why you were not given notice under section 7.1 of schedule 12 of the TCEA 2007. They might admit sending it by post, you can execute a notice to produce evidence of recording the time it was given (the certificate of posting) under paragraph 7.3. If they did not keep a record of the time the notice was given, then enforcement fails and you are also off the hook with the fees under regulation 3 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014.
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#49 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Edd » 24 Oct 2017 00:30

Dear Lh2017,

May I possibly recommend you search YouTube and see how some of their agents really behave.

Here's a tip. No matter what your circumstances etc - this does not mean these set ups can act or behave above the law. Indeed far from it. And should indeed set a good example? Do not be or feel intimidated. Easily said sometimes but then evidence on social media has a habit of revealing a lot more. Their true colours.

Regards

Lh2017
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#50 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Lh2017 » 03 Nov 2017 15:56

I physically went to court where they accepted the Statutory declaration and resentenced me.

Then months later bailiffs turned up on the orginial warrant because the fines department had not cancelled it despite the Stat Dec being accepted at court months before. Its all been sorted and the action stopped but the point is I had to deal with it all, including threat of bailiffs clamping my vehicle because they failed to stop action.

Thats what I want to make a complaint about.

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#51 Re: Marston - 'warrant of control'

Post by Schedule 12 » 03 Nov 2017 21:49

They resentenced you for What?

You must be summoned first. That is why I say never take a stat Dec to Court in person.court staff will go behind the law knowing you will never find out.
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